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From "Mark Washeim" <esa...@canuck.com>
Subject Re: More on Cocoon 2 Get going documentation.
Date Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:18:26 GMT
RANT

This is becoming  very tiring as the proponents of 1.2 don't seem to listen.
NetBSD, in IMHO, is the most clean and stable free Unix operating systems.
We've been using NetBSD since 1994 on many types of hardware for every
concievable purpose. the package source teams are tightly tracking just
about everything going on. For instance, Tomcat 3.x in a netBSD build is
almost always only days behind releases from the ASF.

At http://www.quick.com.au/java/
you'll find the following note:
<QUOTE>
1999/08/11 JDK 1.2 stalled

With the change in Sun's licensing of JDK post 1.2, it appears that 1.2 will
be the last port that we can make available - assuming we finish it. Please
ask your local Sunsoft rep why NetBSD (*BSD?) cannot get the same break that
Linux does wrt freely distributable 1.2.x ports
</QUOTE>

Ok. So, who, precisely is to blame? Well, since Linux appears to be a
"Brand" that sun has latched onto (just as IBM has) which can become nothing
more than another 'vertical market segment' which sun will develop it's own
proprietary version of, isn't it clear that you're all about to sell your
'open source' ideas down the proverbial river?

J2EEEEEEEE (and I'm screaming, ranting, yes) is a ploy.

I'm very unhappy to be ranting like this, but I think that as developers,
many of you are being seduced by the promise of language enhancements
without thinking about the deployment consequences.

In the context of some of my clients, I have already, literally, been forced
to buy sun hardware to satisfy the conditions of the 1.2 JDK requirements
(because I can't get sufficient support on other platforms for the IT
departments in question to support my otherwise readily exepted decisions).

I'm not sure if any of you care, but, I've actually spent a significant
amount of time and money in developing tools that are intended to be
released to you (if they meet up to YOUR standards). And I'm getting nervous
that the discussion is too superficial for it to merit our contribution?

Perhaps I'll just be forced to move to sun hardware and slowlaris just to
keep up. Frankly, I'll regret it as though I'd purchased ms crap in the
beginning.

Sorry to rant.

Mark Washeim
Large Medium


-----Original Message-----
From: Niclas Hedhman <niclas@localbar.com>
To: cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org <cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org>
Date: 27 March 2000 10:27
Subject: Re: More on Cocoon 2 Get going documentation.


>"Kevin A. Burton" wrote:
>
>> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>> >
>> > Please find included minor revision of the installing.xml document to
>> > make Cocoon 2 work.
>> >    * Java Virtual Machine A Java 1.2 or greater compatible virtual
>> >      machine must be present for both command line and servlet type
>> >      usage of Cocoon. Note that all servlet engines require a JVM to
>> >      run so if you are already using servlets you already have one
>> >      installed.
>>
>> Huh?  Did I miss something?  Was this voted on/talked about recently?
>> This is a very bad idea as Linux/FreeBSD machines are still out the door
>> on this issue.
>
>This has been discussed over and over again. And I think the consensus has
>been that if there is no JVM 1.2 available in October (Cocoon 2 preliminary
>final release date), don't keep your hopes up that there ever will be one.
>
>> I have yet to see a real reason why JDK 1.2 is required.  It takes 10%
>> more time to do JDK 1.1 stuff.
>
>Your 10% concern will easily be outweighed when we have managed to get a
>grip on SoftReferences and can do better caching. Sometimes you have to let
>go.
>
>As for Linux, I am running on it, and will report any problems found. Just
>managed to get Cocoon 2 to run, in native threads (although not supported).
>
>Niclas
>


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