Mailing-List: contact cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Message-ID: <38A8160E.8B62F2CB@apache.org>
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 06:49:50 -0800
From: Pierpaolo Fumagalli <pier@apache.org>
Organization: Apache Software Foundation
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: Cocoon 2.0 Salutation!!!
References: <38A7D97E.96146C3@localbar.com> <38A7DC05.4A46E5D7@apache.org>
 <38A7FDC8.7370E03A@apache.org>
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Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> 
> Well, to be _brutally_ honest (as always), I think that Pier's branch is
> an alpha0 and it fully deserves it. I mean, there are some interfaces
> that, man, made me jump off the chair and scream and yell and ...

I know that... And I keep repeating it.. But noone yet came out and made
improvements... I just want FEEDBACK...

> anyway... I'm pleased that Niclas is pleased and even if I think that
> _most_ of the interfaces that Pier designed must be changed or improved,
> I do believe that we have a _clear_ and _global_ vision of how an XML
> framework on the server side should look like.

I totally agree w/ you... Right now the thing is a hack to permit some
kind of work... I'm using it, right now, and that pleases me... But I
totally agree that a bigger redesign of all the factorying method is a
MUST and is nedeed NOW.

> Add SAX2, the proposed API for XML Transformations, XSP and XSLT
> extentions, sitemap capabilities, avalon-like modularity, a powerful
> build system, some authoring tools... and man, next year, cocoon will be
> so far ahead of its times that it will be hard for us to continue

SAX2 is already there (cvs update, stefano, cvs update!), regarding the
XSLT API, I don't care much, since IMVHO XSLT is just another filter...
Regarding XSP, I'm looking for an XSLT engine supporting taglibs, and
operating in SAX, but it seems that nobody cares about those small
details of implementation :(

> Yes, Niclas, your prayers were heard, but we were _already_ aware of
> those problems... it seemed to me that you were simply blindly not
> paying attentions to our discussions.

Hehehehe :) When did we start talking about "Cocoon, to servlet or not
to servlet, this is the question" ????? I believe it was around august,
when I was at IBM...

> > I didn't layered it out... Hey, I just CODED it... The code is not my
> > (C) not my idea...
> 
> And I can tell.... look at AbstractComponent
>  setCocoonInstance(Cocoon);
> Aghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, I hate that thing too... So shut up and find something better...
Give me a hint and I'll code it...

> Yes. The Cocoon2 design started in May last year when we firstly
> discussed the use of Cocoon on big environments at the
> Exoffice-sponsored exolab. Almost all the people that got into that
> adventure and were subscribed to this list were hired by Exoffice
> (Arkin, Keith, Pier, Ricardo, Federico) ... Clark and I are the only one
> that resisted the attack :)

Hahahaha :) The thing is that one have to decide what to do, and I love
working with my friends... So, things come easy for them, you get one,
you get all of us...
And you will resist not for so long :) :) :)

> Anyway, this is to show that we already knew the problems but we didn't
> want to do another "patch and go".. doing a revolution in a open source
> project is a _very_ dangerous approach. You must understand where to go
> way before doing or the project will be forked.

IMVHO, Cocoon 2.0 is not a "revolution", but the natural evolution of
the 1.x... I'm thinking about how to re-enable all the stuff done in the
1.x thread, and it's possible. I still have to give some thought about
it, but I believe we found a way (last thursday, with Keith)...

> No, seriously, Pier sucks in creating interfaces and architectures, but
> he's an _awesome_ coder. that's why we work together so well, we are
> complementary (I hate writing code!)

Kiddo, I did my homework... I gave you something you can see and refine,
revolt, or redo from scratch... NOW STOP TALKING AND GET TO WORK... I
NEED THOSE F***ING INTERFACES! :)

And anyway I'm not an awesome coder too... Just look at my "packeted"
coding style, and you'll see... 

And, (sidenote for Stefano's last week flame), when I say something, I
DO IT and I perfectly know how to evaluate time :) :) :)

	Pier

BTW, I love the new Cocoon logo, the old one sucks! :)
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