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From Ian Kallen <>
Subject RE: What do you want to know how to do?
Date Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:59:56 GMT

Oh, yea!

I've given up on using a framework that requires a transformation language
for the time being; I've talked to the production candidates that come
through here and none of them know squat about XSLT.  I'm sure over time,
that will change but for the time being I'm watching Cocoon, downloading
an occasional release and playing with it.  But our publishing for now
will continue as it is (well, actually I'm rearchitecting...) with a
plug-and-chug templating approach (it's actually more elegant that that :)
permitting editorial to edit, production/art to deal with output (just
HTML for now), and engineers implement logic; I'm leveraging a bunch of
Perl tools anyway (though _not_  XSLT).  So I guess what I'd like to see
in a book is "XSLT for HTML Developers" or something like that I can just
lay on to a production person, pitch _that_ to ORA :)

OK, relurking now.  See ya @ apachecon

Today, COFFMAN Steven <> frothed and gesticulated about...:

> +1 user path, from a dev lurker. I'd love to give a book to the graphic
> artist/web designers so they can do the style + content stuff, while I do
> the logic. Unfortunately, they're having trouble wrapping their minds around
> XML, so Cocoon is right out without a good book.
> -Steve
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brett McLaughlin []
> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 11:11 AM
> To:
> Cc:
> Subject: What do you want to know how to do?
> Users (and developers as well):
> 	Lots of the developers on this list know this, so forgive me for
> playing the same old tune... anyway:
> I am authoring a book for O'Reilly, Java for XML Developers.  This book
> is focused on using XML in the Java world, and the first 2/3 or so is on
> creating XML, parsing XML (SAX 2.0), constraining XML (DTD, XML Schema),
> validating XML (SAX 2.0 again), transforming XML (XSL, XPath, XSLT),
> processing XML (DOM).
> In any case, after that (where I am now) I am doing lots of topical
> things, as there are quite a few important hot spots in the XML/Java
> community right now.  In case you are interested, the complete list is:
> Web Publishing Frameworks
> XML as a data source (configurations, etc)
> XML Schema (extended discussion, instance documents, etc)
> probably some JAXP and data binding (maybe Castor from ExOffice)
> Anyway, surprise surpirse, Cocoon will be my focus for publishing
> frameworks (hey, it's the best).  But I wanted to know what you folks
> (the users especially) are interested in seeing.  There are really two
> distinct paths I can see going in, but only room for one:
> * The strict "user" path.  This would be how to use Cocoon, and how to
> write XSP, and how to use the Sitemap (hopefully the timing on that
> works out, since Pier rocked this weekend on it), how to use
> LDAPProcessor, SQLProcessor, that sort of thing.  In other words, about
> 85% if not more will be usability, not writing custom producers,
> processors, and the like.  This, the more I think about it, may be where
> the demand actually lies.
> * The "developer" path.  This would look at creating a producer,
> registering it with Cocoon, then probably converting it to a processor
> (or creating a new processor), registering it with Cocoon, looking at
> Cocoon's architecture a little (how the request/response model maps),
> then a look at XSP and the sitemap.  This is going to be (at first look,
> at least) a lot more for Cocoon developers, and may no provide as much
> usable information for most users, since, frankly, most users aren't
> coding producers or processors.
> I don't have any problem going either way, but my goal is to produce
> something you folks will use and learn from, so let me know what sounds
> interesting to you (asap, please, i have nasty deadlines ;-) )
> -Brett McLaughlin

Salon Internet
  Manager, Software and Systems "Livin' La Vida Unix!"
Ian Kallen <> / AIM: iankallen / Fax: (415) 354-3326 

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