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From "Kevin A. Burton" <bur...@relativity.yi.org>
Subject Re: [RT] "To Cocoon2 and beyond" :)
Date Tue, 29 Feb 2000 04:42:16 GMT
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
<snip>
> Exactly. This is what I mean by "moving JetSpeed over Cocoon". JetSpeed
> is a web application, Cocoon is a publishing framework, Tomcat is a
> servlet engine, Avalon is a server framework.
> 
> The picture is
> 
>                      JetSpeed
>                         |
>                       Cocoon
>            +------------+------------+
>          james        tomcat        jam
>            +------------+------------+
>                         |
>                       Avalon
> 

It is more like this:

                      JetSpeed
                         |

                  Cocoon + Turbine
            +------------+------------+
          james        tomcat        jam
            +------------+------------+
                         |
                       Avalon

What is "jam" btw?

> 
> YES.
> 
> > This includes user subscription to multiple XML data
> > sources/user authentication/ etc.  I am +1 at federating this out.  I
> > was really strong at creating the Turbine project because most of the
> > code would have had to be done within Jetspeed.
> 
> The problem I see now is that Turbine and Cocoon cannot coexist in their
> current form because they partially overlap. Both are servlets, both
> have a sort-of sitemap. cocoon is not a document generator like the
> Turbine people think... you can't call it as an API since it must handle
> the URI requested to understand how to generate that page.

Yes.  I know.  My approach is to leverage what I see as strengths of
both platforms.
 
> True, there are some areas that Turbine addresses that I'd love to
> integrate and federate, but I believe this should be _above_ Cocoon,
> using XSP code or special hand-written XML generators. Or some of the
> turbine API could be wrapped by taglibs and made available to XSP users
> as shipped logicsheets....

I would be all over that.  Taglibs for Cocoon/Turbine would be big.  We
need to better integrate on our end two.  Cocoon right now *can* be used
as an API but only by providing our own ServletRequests and Responses...
not good (Cocoon2)
 
> Jon believes the web is done by programmers. I don't. This is the key
> issue. This is why Cocoon and Turbine don't easily match: they follow
> radically different paradigms.

Yes.  But there is something to be said in regard to a specific
audience.  Certain sections of the web are programmers and want to do it
the Turbine way.
 
> > You comment "I'd like to create web applications on top of Cocoon using
> > JetSpeed code but moving it over Cocoon"  doesn't really apply.  The
> > only non-Cocoon code is the Portlet API and this is only a way to create
> > multiple content sources and allow multiple people to subscribe to them
> > and have Jetspeed cache them locally.   You can use Cocoon all you want
> > form within Jetspeed :)
> 
> You are right, my sentence doesn't really make sense.
> 
> Anyway, I'd like us to analyze together JetSpeed needs and figure out if
> Cocoon needs to do something special for JetSpeed. Any comments on this?

The only thing I am really worried about with respect to Cocoon is that
it won't scale across large numbers of really small XML documents and
lots of users.  There are ways around this so I think it will be OK. 
RSS is a good example.  When it catches off there will be hundreds of
thousands of 4k XML docs that need to be translated...

Kevin

-- 
Kevin A Burton
http://relativity.yi.org
Linux - The revolution will NOT be televised

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