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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: [RT] "To Cocoon2 and beyond" :)
Date Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:33:31 GMT
"Kevin A. Burton" wrote:
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> <snip>
> > > >  a) use the RSS info with user preferences to create specific collection
> > > > of resources (sort of a portal building toolkit, which is what the
> > > > JetSpeed project is all about)
> > >
> > > Are we going to invent JetSpeed again???? Or are we going to integrate
> > > Jetspeed with Cocoon???
> >
> > Yes. Both JetSpeed and Turbine are trying to incorporate Cocoon
> > capabilities into them... I think they can't possibly do this without
> > loosing much of the functionality, expecially the sitemap.
> >
> > So I'll push to go the other way around: reimplement JetSpeed on top of
> > Cocoon.
> >
> > > I think here's a big opportunity for Avalon, just make Jetspeed services
> > > Avalon-Components of the Block Jetspeed and Cocoon can use it (if Cocoon
> > > uses Avalon). Or is this not the way to go????
> >
> > Well, actually, there is nothing that JetSpeed does as a functionality
> > that Cocoon cannot do by itself. JetSpeed is a complex servlet, if you
> > wish, a portal-toolkit. I'd like to create web applications on top of
> > Cocoon using JetSpeed code but moving it over Cocoon.
> <snip>
> My ears are burning :)

No, please, let's stay focused. I believe we lack a common set of
terminology, but at the end, I think we are saying the same thing. I'll
try to explain below.
> Jetspeed isn't really a technology like Cocoon or Tomcat or anything.
> It is more just a place to take multiple projects and incorporate them
> into one framework (RSS and
> OCS/Messaging/Projects/iCalendar/Discussion/etc).  Avalon will be big
> there.  You can use Cocoon to drive Jetspeed 100% if you want.  It
> doesn't care.

Exactly. This is what I mean by "moving JetSpeed over Cocoon". JetSpeed
is a web application, Cocoon is a publishing framework, Tomcat is a
servlet engine, Avalon is a server framework.

The picture is

         james        tomcat        jam

> Jetspeed really just sits on top of Turbine/Cocoon/Tomcat to provide a
> Portal.  


> This includes user subscription to multiple XML data
> sources/user authentication/ etc.  I am +1 at federating this out.  I
> was really strong at creating the Turbine project because most of the
> code would have had to be done within Jetspeed.

The problem I see now is that Turbine and Cocoon cannot coexist in their
current form because they partially overlap. Both are servlets, both
have a sort-of sitemap. cocoon is not a document generator like the
Turbine people think... you can't call it as an API since it must handle
the URI requested to understand how to generate that page.

True, there are some areas that Turbine addresses that I'd love to
integrate and federate, but I believe this should be _above_ Cocoon,
using XSP code or special hand-written XML generators. Or some of the
turbine API could be wrapped by taglibs and made available to XSP users
as shipped logicsheets....

Jon believes the web is done by programmers. I don't. This is the key
issue. This is why Cocoon and Turbine don't easily match: they follow
radically different paradigms.

> You comment "I'd like to create web applications on top of Cocoon using
> JetSpeed code but moving it over Cocoon"  doesn't really apply.  The
> only non-Cocoon code is the Portlet API and this is only a way to create
> multiple content sources and allow multiple people to subscribe to them
> and have Jetspeed cache them locally.   You can use Cocoon all you want
> form within Jetspeed :)

You are right, my sentence doesn't really make sense.
Anyway, I'd like us to analyze together JetSpeed needs and figure out if
Cocoon needs to do something special for JetSpeed. Any comments on this?

Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
 Come to the first official Apache Software Foundation Conference!  
------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------

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