Mailing-List: contact cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Message-ID: <38885770.212E326E@apache.org>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:56:16 +0100
From: Stefano Mazzocchi <stefano@apache.org>
Organization: Apache Software Foundation
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: xBug -Reply
References: <NDBBJIOLGLAOBAAGJJIMEEJOCNAA.ricardo@apache.org>
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Ricardo Rocha wrote:
> 
> On Jan-20-2000 Scott Boag wrote:
> > I hate to rain on the parade, but I strongly feel that xml.apache.org
> > should work off a single bug tracking system so that bugs can be
> > cross-posted and transferred.  I would rather see one of the existing bug
> > tracking systems be used ASAP... I've been pretty upset that one isn't up
> > yet.

> I concur with Scott in that (� la Highlander) there should be only one.
> Bugzilla would be probably the most appropriate option, save xBug
> happened to materialize soon and in a truly acceptable form.
> 
> > If people do want to write another bug tracking system, I feel it
> > should be done as a separate project from Cocoon, it should be done
> > orthogonally to the needs of xml.apache.org, and should be adapted
> > by xml.apache.org on it's merits.  A bug tracking system is too important
> > and central to the well-being of the projects to do anything else.
> 
> It appears to me that the proposed bug tracking system _is_ a separate
> project from Cocoon.
> 
> Personally (god forgive me!) I'm interested in it fundamentally as a
> testbed for a dynamic XML development methodology as well as to
> test XSP's capabilities as a dynamic tag processing language. From
> this (shamefully selfish?) point of view, it could well be another
> database-driven application...
> 
> Also, imo, John's and Kevin's manifest intention is to _learn_ Cocoon
> technology around this project.
> 
> Thus, there appears to be a strong "academic" motivation. (I'm afraid
> to appear too anarchistic but... what the heck!)
> 
> That said, I'd like to contrast this open-source endeavor with that of a
> commercial software company.
> 
> In the latter, it would be an inadmissible waste of time and money to
> reinvent the wheel, especially around such a critical component.
> 
> Here, though, I feel we can afford this luxury as long as we get what
> seems to be our collective motivation: learning, testing, improving...
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if something really cool turns out from xBug
> (as I wouldn't either if the opposite was the case, :-))
> 
> Should this live long and prosper, we'll revisit Scott's statement:
> 
>   > [xBug] should be adapted by xml.apache.org on it's merits

I totally agree with both Ricardo and Scott: a bug traking system should
be adopted by the ASF only on its merits. On the other hand, a bug
traking system is a piece of the OSS framework that the ASF is willing
to create.

My final goal is to create a software for open source projects.
Something that works on top of existing web resources such as web, mail
and CVS and provides an infrastructure that can be reused on every open
source project.

This project is currently funded by Collab.net and it's name is "Tigris"
from one of the rivers that gave birth to the Babilonian empire.

Brian Behlendorf is pushing on this since a year, now, but he's
apparently is going nowhere. Jon and I have been working to create the
technology infrastructure with JServ first, then Turbine and Cocoon to
allow something like this to happen soon.

In this direction goes also the JAMES mail server that is currently able
to handle both SMTP and POP3 and it's pure Java + implements a Mail
Servlet engine.

I know it's hard to see its global vision, but with the task of creating
the best informative infrastructure for itself, the apache group is
slowly integrating all possible information technologies and create the
right "glue code" or rewrite solutions from scratch using new paradigm.

There is the old statement: "good programmers know what to write, great
ones what to reuse".

I modestly add: "gurus design frameworks" :)

-- 
Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<stefano@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
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