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From "Steve Muench" <smue...@us.oracle.com>
Subject Re: Happy to be wrong!
Date Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:35:05 GMT
| 
| It's time for the "XSLT" folks to come up
| with something about this :)
| 

Too early to say anything official on this yet, but
as you can imagine existing implementations of 
extension-element functionality (Saxon 5.0, Xalan,
and soon OracleXSLT) and extension-element-like
functionality (xsp,cocoon Producer,others?) definitely
will serve as guides to implementation approaches
in any work we may do to refine the details.

I believe Scott's points have been that even in absence
of more specific details, what's in the 1.0 spec can
be used to align the page syntax for content generation
around XSLT Extension Elements, using XSP as a cool
way to design libraries of implementations of extension
elements. 

_________________________________________________________
Steve Muench, Consulting Product Manager & XML Evangelist
XSL Working Group Rep for Oracle
Business Components for Java Development Team
http://technet.oracle.com/tech/java
http://technet.oracle.com/tech/xml
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stefano Mazzocchi" <stefano@apache.org>
To: <cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 3:43 AM
Subject: Re: Happy to be wrong!


| Pierpaolo Fumagalli wrote:
| > 
| > This is the "real" answer...
| > 
| > Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
| > >
| > > Have you ever been happy to be wrong?
| > 
| > Nope... :) It makes me feel like a dork :)
| 
| You _are_ a dork, that's why :)
|  
|  > [...]
| > > The only concern I had, was still performance: how can EXSLT work faster
| > > than a compiled server page? simple, it can't.
| > 
| > That's the point...
| 
| Yes.
| 
| > > A smart E-XSLT engine should _not_ perform stylesheet compilation (which
| > > may be helpful but no that much), but do _page_ compilation. Let's look
| > > again:
| > >
| > >  XML -EXSLT-> Java -javac-> producer -execution-> XML
| > >
| > > so, if we evaluate the two with what Cocoon does today we get
| > >
| > >  -EXSLT-> := -XSLT-taglibs-> XSP -XSLT->
| > >
| > > which makes XSP totally useless since it's just a step between XSLT
| > > transformations.
| > 
| > You basically apply the transformation and THEN compile the resulting
| > XML... Did I get it right????
| 
| No. That way you come up with a compiled static page.
| 
| Ok, suppose you have a page like this
| 
|  <p>Good <time:time-of-day/></p>
| 
| where time: is your taglib and gets executed as
| 
|  (hour <= 12) ? "morning" : "afternoon"
| 
| (don't look at the logic that sucks)
| 
| the EXSLT output could be either
| 
|  public class Producer {
| 
|    int hour = new Date().getHour();
| 
|    void producer (request, response, handler) {
|        handler.startDocument();
|        handler.createElement("p");
|        handler.content("Good ");
|        handler.content((hour <= 12) ? "morning" : "afternoon");
|        handler.closeElement("p");
|        handler.endDocument();
|    }
|  }
| 
| or
| 
|  <?xml version="1.0"?>
|  <p>Good [Morning|Afternoon]</p>
| 
| depending on what "mode" of operation we choosed: interpretation or
| compilation.
| 
| See how, in the first case, execution of that class alone, once compiled
| into bytecode, totally skips xml parsing and xslt transformation,
| resulting in a much faster execution.
| 
| Note that "compilaton mode" is exactly what XSP is today, and
| "interpretation mode" is what EXSLT should be. But it's an
| implementation detail (even if a big one) to trigger one behavior or the
| other, not a design decision.
| 
| That is the point where I was wrong.
| 
| Still, the implementation details are a nightmare, but since we already
| have a working XSP implementation, it could not be that bad... but I
| this point, I can't really tell and I'm happy to have others taking care
| of this :)
| 
| > I still have to figure out HOW it's possible (from the implementation
| > point of view) but I believe it's possible...
| 
| It's time for the "XSLT" folks to come up with something about this :)
| 
| -- 
| Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
|                           able to give birth to a dancing star.
| <stefano@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
| --------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Come to the first official Apache Software Foundation Conference!  
| ------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------
| 
| 
| 


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