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From Ron Wheeler <rwhee...@artifact-software.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSE] EOL for supported OSes & Hypervisors
Date Mon, 22 Jan 2018 15:20:54 GMT
They would be locked into ACS version 11 if the team incorporated any 
dependency on new features from RHEL/CentOS 7 into an ACS version after 11.

I gather that this would give them full support until the beginning of 
2020 depending on when the support clock starts for ACS 11.

Would this allow them enough time to get a migration completed?

I suppose that they could find a vendor that would offer them a plan of 
extended ACS 11 support to apply security fixes to ACS 11 after it goes 
off official LTS support.

If testing on Centos 6 was dropped in the ACS 12 Release Plan without 
inclusion of any CentOS 7 dependencies into the actual code, they would 
have to do their own testing of RCs  for ACS 12 on CentOS 6  or pay a 
support team to do this testing and to modify any installation/upgrade 
scripts that will not run on CentOS 6.

So far we are up to 1 possible existing client where this is a problem.

I believe the other client using CentOS 6 did not actually have the 
CentOS 6 hosts managed by ACS.

Ron


On 22/01/2018 7:42 AM, Dag Sonstebo wrote:
> Agree with Ron that new CloudStack users are unlikely to want to use RHEL/CentOS v6.x,
however as Eric hinted at there will be existing CloudStack users using version 6 for a while
still.
>
> I am working with one company with 1000+ RHEL6 KVM hosts and no easy (or particularly
clean) RHEL7 upgrade path – for them dropping RHEL6 support in 2018 would be a major issue.
>
> On the management side this should however be a lot less of an issue.
>
> Regards,
> Dag Sonstebo
> Cloud Architect
> ShapeBlue
>
> On 17/01/2018, 14:50, "Ron Wheeler" <rwheeler@artifact-software.com> wrote:
>
>      It might also be helpful to know what version of ACS as well.
>      Some indication of your plan/desire to upgrade ACS, hypervisor, or
>      management server operating system might be helpful.
>      There is a big difference between the situation where someone is running
>      ACS 4.9x on CentOS 6 and wants to upgrade to ACS 4.12 while keeping
>      CentOS 6 and another environment where the planned upgrade to ACS4.12
>      will be done at the same time as an upgrade to CentOS 7.x.
>      
>      Is it fair to say that any proposed changes in this area will occur in
>      4.12 at the earliest and will not likely occur before summer 2018?
>      
>      
>      Ron
>      
>      
>      On 17/01/2018 4:23 AM, Paul Angus wrote:
>      > Thanks Eric,
>      >
>      > As you'll see from the intro email to this thread, the purpose here is to ensure
that we don't strand a 'non-trivial' number of users by dropping support for any given hypervisor,
or management server operating system.
>      >
>      > Hence the request to users to let the community know what they are using, so
that a fact-based community consensus can be reached.
>      >
>      >
>      > Kind regards,
>      >
>      > Paul Angus
>      >
>      > paul.angus@shapeblue.com
>      > www.shapeblue.com
>      > 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London  WC2N 4HSUK
>      > @shapeblue
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > -----Original Message-----
>      > From: Eric Lee Green [mailto:eric.lee.green@gmail.com]
>      > Sent: 16 January 2018 23:36
>      > To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>      > Subject: Re: [PROPOSE] EOL for supported OSes & Hypervisors
>      >
>      >> This is the type of discussion that I wanted to open - the argument
>      >> that I see for earlier dropping of v6 is that - Between May 2018 and
>      >> q2 2020 RHEL/CentOS 6.x will only receive security and mission
>      >> critical updates, meanwhile packages on which we depend or may want to
>      >> utilise in the future are been deprecated or not developed for v6.x
>      > But this has always been the case for Centos 6.x. It is running antique versions
of everything, and has been doing so for quite some time. It is, for example, running versions
of Gnome and init that have been obsolete for years. Same deal with the version of MySQL that
it comes with.
>      >
>      > The reality is that Centos 6.x guest support, at the very least, needs to be
tested with each new version of Cloudstack until final EOL of Centos 6 in Q2 2020. New versions
of Cloudstack with new features not supported by Centos 6 (such as LVM support for KVM, which
requires the LIO storage stack) can require Centos 7 or later, but the last Cloudstack version
that supports Centos 6.x as its server host should continue to receive bug fixes until Centos
6.x is EOL.
>      >
>      > Making someone's IT investment obsolete is a way to irrelevancy.
>      > Cloudstack is already an also-ran in the cloud marketplace. Making someone's
IT investment obsolete before the official EOL time for their IT investment is a good way
to have a mass migration away from your technology.
>      >
>      > This doesn't particularly affect me since my Centos 6 virtualization hosts
are not running Cloudstack and are going to be re-imaged to Centos
>      > 7 before being added to the Cloudstack cluster, but ignoring the IT environment
that people actually live in, as versus the one we wish existed, is annoying regardless. A
friend of mine once said of the state of ERP software, "enterprise software is dog food if
dog food was being designed by cats." I.e., the people writing the software rarely have any
understanding of how it is actually used by real life enterprises in real life environments.
Don't be those people.
>      >
>      >
>      > On 01/16/2018 09:58 AM, Paul Angus wrote:
>      >> Hi Eric,
>      >>
>      >> This is the type of discussion that I wanted to open - the argument
>      >> that I see for earlier dropping of v6 is that - Between May 2018 and q2
2020 RHEL/CentOS 6.x will only receive security and mission critical updates, meanwhile packages
on which we depend or may want to utilise in the future are been deprecated or not developed
for v6.x Also the testing and development burden on the CloudStack community increases as
we try to maintain backward compatibility while including new versions.
>      >>
>      >> Needing installation documentation for centos 7 is a great point, and something
that we need to address regardless.
>      >>
>      >>
>      >> Does anyone else have a view, I'd really like to here from a wide range
of people.
>      >>
>      >> Kind regards,
>      >>
>      >> Paul Angus
>      >>
>      >> paul.angus@shapeblue.com
>      >> www.shapeblue.com
>      >> 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London  WC2N 4HSUK @shapeblue
>      >>
>      >>
>      >>
>      >>
>      >> -----Original Message-----
>      >> From: Eric Green [mailto:eric.lee.green@gmail.com]
>      >> Sent: 12 January 2018 17:24
>      >> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>      >> Cc: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>      >> Subject: Re: [PROPOSE] EOL for supported OSes & Hypervisors
>      >>
>      >> Official EOL for Centos 6 / RHEL 6 as declared by Red Hat Software is 11/30/2020.
Jumping the gun a bit there, padme.
>      >>
>      >> People on Centos 6 should certainly be working on a migration strategy
right now, but the end is not here *yet*. Furthermore, the install documentation is still
written for Centos 6 rather than Centos 7. That needs to be fixed before discontinuing support
for Centos 6, eh?
>      >>
>      >>
> Dag.Sonstebo@shapeblue.com
> www.shapeblue.com
> 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London  WC2N 4HSUK
> @shapeblue
>    
>   
>
>> On Jan 12, 2018, at 04:35, Rohit Yadav <rohit.yadav@shapeblue.com> wrote:
>      >>>
>      >>> +1 I've updated the page with upcoming Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.
>      >>>
>      >>>
>      >>> After 4.11, I think 4.12 (assuming releases by mid of 2018) should
remove "declared" (they might still work with 4.12+ but in docs and by project we should officially
support them) support for following:
>      >>>
>      >>>
>      >>> a. Hypervisor:
>      >>>
>      >>> XenServer - 6.2, 6.5,
>      >>>
>      >>> KVM - CentOS6, RHEL6, Ubuntu12.04 (I think this is already removed,
>      >>> packages don't work I think?)
>      >>>
>      >>> vSphere/Vmware - 4.x, 5.0, 5.1, 5.5
>      >>>
>      >>>
>      >>> b. Remove packaging for CentOS6.x, RHEL 6.x (the el6 packages), and
Ubuntu 12.04 (any non-systemd debian distro).
>      >>>
>      >>>
>      >>> Thoughts, comments?
>      >>>
>      
>      --
>      Ron Wheeler
>      President
>      Artifact Software Inc
>      email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
>      skype: ronaldmwheeler
>      phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>      
>      
>

-- 
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102


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