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From Remi Bergsma <RBerg...@schubergphilis.com>
Subject Re: XenServer nested on XenServer
Date Thu, 16 Jun 2016 16:49:44 GMT
Hi Tim,

Virtualising XenServer in KVM (and ESXi) works fine. We use it a lot for testing and it even
performs OK (KVM on KVM is a faster, but it’s usable). To make things easy, just run everything
in one KVM VM (or connect two openvswitches together with virtual patch coards). The bridges
will make sure all vlans are available. It’s fully transparent, no need for complex configurations.

Regards, Remi 

On 16/06/16 15:38, "Tim Mackey" <tmackey@gmail.com> wrote:

>Maruko-san,
>
>My expectation is even with KVM you'd experience similar problems. Assuming
>KVM will virtualize XenServer (not something I'm aware of it being a
>working configuration), you'd still have the networking problems to
>address. Paul can confirm, but to the best of my knowledge, the only
>hypervisor with a virtual switch which properly supports trunking is
>vSphere Enterprise Plus (and may require Cisco Nexus 1000v). I am aware of
>people nesting XenServer in vSphere for training purposes, but the
>performance is low (iirc nested vSphere emulates some of the hypervisor
>calls rather than using pure hardware).
>
>-tim
>
>On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:37 PM, 丸子良太 / MARUKO,RYOTA <
>ryota.maruko.fd@hitachi-solutions.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Paul, Tim
>>
>> Thank you for your answer.
>>
>> It can run on the "NO" nested XenServer with some physical server and
>> physical switch.
>> My goal was to build an easy test environment,
>> And to be prepared in fewer resources
>> (1 phisical Management Server and some hypervisor on 1 phisical
>> hypervisor).
>>
>> So take the time I think I will give up....
>> Last question!!
>> Will I be able to construct "XenServer nested on KVM"???
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Tim Mackey [mailto:tmackey@gmail.com]
>> >Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:39 PM
>> >To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >Subject: [!]Re: XenServer nested on XenServer
>> >
>> >Maruko-san,
>> >
>> >The problem is that you're using advanced networking. Advanced networking
>> >requires the physical switch to have its switch ports trunked. When you
>> run
>> >a nested XenServer, that physical switch becomes the *virtual* switch of
>> >the XenServer. While I believe it is possible to configure the virtual
>> >switch to allow a given virtual switch port to run in a trunked mode, the
>> >XenServer api isn't coded to allow for this.
>> >
>> >What this means is that in order to make your configuration function,
>> >you're going to need to determine a number of things (XenServer vif and
>> pif
>> >ports), and then directly configure the ovs (open virtual switch) to allow
>> >trunked operations for your VLANs. Complicating matters is that you'll
>> need
>> >to do this both on every host in the pool, but also at each server
>> restart.
>> >The latter is due to the vif port on the ovs being different as each VM
>> >boots, and a reboot will change that port (even though the vif remains the
>> >same).
>> >
>> >I *think* MAC forwarding will work properly, so I'd suggest trying to use
>> >basic networking.
>> >
>> >btw, what I outlined for the advanced networking is very much "unsupported
>> >by Citrix" at this time
>> >
>> >-tim
>> >
>> >On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Paul Angus <paul.angus@shapeblue.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Ryota,
>> >>
>> >> A lot here depends on the 'outside' XenServer's openvswiches ability to
>> >> pass traffic to a MAC that it can't see. And with the trunking of VLANs
>> >> The first test I would do is migrate the UserVM to XenServer01-002. If
>> >> they can communicate then your issue is with the outer networking.
>> >>
>> >> Tim and Remi may know more about bending XenServer networking to your
>> >> will, but from my general experience:
>> >>
>> >> You many well need to configure your outer XenServer (XenServer01) to
>> use
>> >> promiscuous mode on any interfaces which the nested XenServers use.
>> >> http://support.citrix.com/article/CTX121729
>> >> and
>> >> you'll need to ensure that tagged VLANs are passed through the guest
>> >> interfaces on the parent XenServer (XenServer01) as XenServer01-002 will
>> >> tag traffic with VLAN x,y,z (guest VLAN) which needs to be retained and
>> >> passed to XenServer01-003 - I don't know how to do that for a
>> XenServer...:(
>> >>
>> >> there is also an experimental setting for nested XenServers:
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://justus.berlin/2015/07/nested-virtualization-in-citrix-xenserver-6-5-sp1/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Kind regards,
>> >>
>> >> Paul Angus
>> >>
>> >> paul.angus@shapeblue.com
>> >> www.shapeblue.com
>> >> 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London  WC2N 4HSUK
>> >> @shapeblue
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: 丸子良太 / MARUKO,RYOTA [mailto:ryota.maruko.fd@hitachi-solutions.com
>> ]
>> >> Sent: 15 June 2016 09:57
>> >> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> Subject: RE: XenServer nested on XenServer
>> >>
>> >> Dear Paul&Remi&Tim
>> >>
>> >> My networking is as follows.
>> >>
>> >> The zone is Advanced mode.
>> >> I made 3 XenServers as XenServer01-001/002/003 on XenServer01.
>> >> And I could add the 3 hosts to CloudStack.
>> >> SSVM and CPVM started in XenServer01-001.
>> >> So, I could deploy UserVM in XenServer01-002 and VR(DHCP) in
>> >> XenServer01-003.
>> >>
>> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> >> ManagementServer(172.168.100.110)
>> >> |
>> >> |
>> >> (PhysicalNetwork)
>> >> |
>> >> |
>> >> XenServer01(172.168.100.100)
>> >>   ------------------------------------
>> >>    XenServer01-001(172.168.100.101)  <--SSVM/CPVM
>> >>    XenServer01-002(172.168.100.102)  <--VR(DHCP)
>> >>    XenServer01-003(172.168.100.103)  <--UserVM
>> >>   ------------------------------------
>> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> But, it could not access between the UserVM and the VR.
>> >> I wander if VLAN is not granted because of the nested XenServer.
>> >>
>> >> ~~~~~~~~~~
>> >> VR -OK-> XenServer01-002 -OK-> XenServer01 -NG??-> XenServer01-003
-->
>> >> UserVM ~~~~~~~~~~
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >-----Original Message-----
>> >> >From: 丸子良太 / MARUKO,RYOTA
>> >> >[mailto:ryota.maruko.fd@hitachi-solutions.com]
>> >> >Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 5:42 PM
>> >> >To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> >Subject: RE: XenServer nested on XenServer
>> >> >
>> >> >Hi, Paul&Remi&Tim
>> >> >
>> >> >Thank you for your e-mail.
>> >> >And I will write the details of my networking.
>> >> >
>> >> >Please wait for my e-mail.
>> >> >(English is too difficult for me(^^))
>> >> >
>> >> >Regards
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >> >>From: Remi Bergsma [mailto:RBergsma@schubergphilis.com]
>> >> >>Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 4:27 PM
>> >> >>To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> >>Subject: Re: XenServer nested on XenServer
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Hi Paul,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>I don’t get it but that’s probably me :-) Never mind.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Regards,
>> >> >>Remi
>> >> >>
>> >> >>On 13/06/16 16:00, "Paul Angus" <paul.angus@shapeblue.com>
wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>Remi,
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I think asking for the details for Maruko San's networking in
order
>> >> >>>to give him (hopefully) useful specific help covered
>> >> >>that part.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Haters gonna hate.
>> >> >>>Paul Angus
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>paul.angus@shapeblue.com
>> >> >>>www.shapeblue.com
>> >> >>>53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London  WC2N 4HSUK @shapeblue
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>-----Original Message-----
>> >> >>>From: Remi Bergsma [mailto:RBergsma@schubergphilis.com]
>> >> >>>Sent: 13 June 2016 14:26
>> >> >>>To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> >>>Subject: Re: XenServer nested on XenServer
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>I kinda like shameless self-plugs although I fail to see how
this one
>> >> answers the question asked?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>On 13/06/16 14:09, "Paul Angus" <paul.angus@shapeblue.com>
wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>Hi Maruko San
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>We'd need to see the details of your networking.
>> >> >>>>We've created Trillian   github.com/shapeblue/Trillian -
it's based
>> >> on ESXi and uses CloudStack to orchestrate
>> >> >everything.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Kind regards,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Paul Angus
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>paul.angus@shapeblue.com
>> >> >>>>www.shapeblue.com
>> >> >>>>53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London  WC2N 4HSUK @shapeblue
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>-----Original Message-----
>> >> >>>>From: 丸子良太 / MARUKO,RYOTA
>> >> >>>>[mailto:ryota.maruko.fd@hitachi-solutions.com]
>> >> >>>>Sent: 13 June 2016 07:53
>> >> >>>>To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> >>>>Subject: XenServer nested on XenServer
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Hi
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>I tried to create XenServer nested on XenServer for CloudStack.
>> >> >>>>It is success to create XenServer nested on XenServer, And
>> CloudStack
>> >> Manager create the system VMs.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>But VR could not access the user VMs.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Please tell me about the problem.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Regards
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>>

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