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From Andrija Panic <andrija.pa...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: XenServer
Date Sat, 01 Nov 2014 14:05:35 GMT
Alex, thanks for sharing the solution - but this is more for a professional
like us - for a regular customer - this is simply not the solution - he/she
wants regular snapshot, 1 click - done.

There are always workarrounds for any kind of problems - but we are talking
here about the need for right solution, not a workarround - at least from
customer side.
And we are using cloudstack here :) so I want to use the GUI for
snapshoting as it already works for Xen - we just need implementation for
KVM.

Thanks anyway,
Cheers

On 1 November 2014 04:03, Alexey Zilber <alexeyzilber@gmail.com> wrote:

> Andrija,
>
>  What we used to do at a big provider with AWS, say a VM has multiple
> attached volumes with mysql running across all of them (one for data,
> another for binary logs, say another for relay logs), is if the filesystem
> supports freezing, you can freeze the fs, then snapshot one by one.  So for
> XFS for example, this would be xfs_freeze.  There's creative ways of doing
> this, combining filesystem features and LVM.  You can also do similar
> things with ZFS.
>
> -Alex
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 12:50 AM, Andrija Panic <andrija.panic@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Andrei - I agree 100% with you - fancy stuff, new features, and basic
> ones
> > needs to be fixed - snapshoting, custom vxlan MTU and so on, GUI
> > brokne/buggy, and so on.
> >
> > We have customer who wants to do 90 days snapshoting and possibility to
> > revert back - with this approach coping from primary to secondary volume,
> > simple 50GB volume X 90 days = 4.5 TB of data on secondary storage - for
> > me, this is nonsese... snapshots needs to stay on primary storage (must
> be
> > shared storage I undestand etc..)
> >
> > Anyway, we agree, let see if the issues get fixed by chance :)
> > Cheers
> >
> > On 31 October 2014 17:33, Andrei Mikhailovsky <andrei@arhont.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Andrija,
> > >
> > > Also, I might add that the snapshotting should not take a long time,
> like
> > > what's currently happening with KVM. It takes absolutely ages for the
> > > snapshot to complete while the image is being copied from primary to
> > > secondary storage. If you have a bunch of volumes you want to snapshot,
> > > they just take up all the queue and eventually timeout. Try taking a
> > > snapshot of about 50+ volumes at the same time, which is not very
> > uncommon
> > > for a medium infrastructure, let alone a large cloud. Things will get
> > > broken pretty quickly.
> > >
> > > Even if you are using ceph storage with the built in capabilities for
> > > doing rbd snapshotting, this mechanism is still somewhat broken and
> > buggy.
> > > For instance, it would be nice to have a working ability to keep the
> > > snapshots on the primary storage to remove this time consuming
> > > primary-secondary storage coping, but this feature has been broken for
> > > about a year already with no prospects of being fixed as far as I can
> > tell.
> > >
> > > So, as it stands at the moment, looking from the customer perspective,
> > the
> > > snapshotting is broken with KVM and needs to be addressed asap. Not
> > really
> > > sure why this is not a priority for the dev team? It seems that the
> team
> > is
> > > pushing those fancy features into the new releases without
> concentrating
> > on
> > > the basics of what the clients want. Very frustrating for the clients
> (((
> > >
> > > Andrei
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > > From: "Andrija Panic" <andrija.panic@gmail.com>
> > > > To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > Sent: Friday, 31 October, 2014 3:35:20 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: XenServer
> > >
> > > > Nux, I agree that we need to push that - but since I'm not a
> > > > develoepr, no
> > > > reall use of me :) If I need to push somewhere, just let me know.
> > > > Anyway, user want a single click SNAPSHOT - and an option for revert
> > > > -
> > > > talking about public cloud....
> > >
> > > > Cheers
> > >
> > > > On 31 October 2014 16:18, Nux! <nux@li.nux.ro> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Andrija,
> > > > >
> > > > > AFAIK you can't snapshot all the volumes in the exact same moment,
> > > > > but I
> > > > > am not sure if it really needed in your case.
> > > > > VM snapshot it's what you would need, only supported for Xenserver
> > > > > and
> > > > > VMware; we need to push for VM snapshot for KVM as well, I know
> > > > > it's
> > > > > possible as I have done it manually with "virsh".
> > > > >
> > > > > There are different ways around a problem though, if you are
> > > > > running mysql
> > > > > with innodb for example you could just do a mysqldump (with
> > > > > --single-transaction to avoid locking the tables).
> > > > >
> > > > > HTH
> > > > > Lucian
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!
> > > > >
> > > > > Nux!
> > > > > www.nux.ro
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Andrija Panic" <andrija.panic@gmail.com>
> > > > > > To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, 31 October, 2014 15:10:26
> > > > > > Subject: Re: XenServer
> > > > >
> > > > > > Nux,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I understand this - but a question for you - you have i.e. 3
> > > > > > volumes
> > > > > > attached to a VM - how do you snapshot those and make sure they
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > snapshoted in the EXACT same moment, to preserve data integrity
> > > > > > of the
> > > > > data
> > > > > > inside VM - you have i.e. database files on 1 volume, database
> > > > > > logs on
> > > > > > another.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is a reall question, not kidding ? What I know, you can
> > > > > > turnoff VM,
> > > > > > and then snapshot one by one - but this is not the goal of the
> > > > > > snapshotting...
> > > > > > ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 31 October 2014 16:06, Nux! <nux@li.nux.ro> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Andrija,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> You can still do volume snapshotting with KVM, works fine.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.nux.ro/archive/2014/01/Taking_KVM_volume_snapshots_with_Cloudstack_4_2_on_CentOS_6_5.html
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> All we need is a way to quickly restore the volume, some
guys at
> > > > > leaseweb
> > > > > >> were working on something like this, hope to see this feature
in
> > > > > >> future
> > > > > >> versions.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --
> > > > > >> Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Nux!
> > > > > >> www.nux.ro
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >> > From: "Andrija Panic" <andrija.panic@gmail.com>
> > > > > >> > To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > > >> > Sent: Friday, 31 October, 2014 09:37:49
> > > > > >> > Subject: Re: XenServer
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > My vote also for KVM snapshooting - having all the
nice
> > > > > >> > fetaures, but
> > > > > >> > without basic virtualization stuff like snapshotting
- it
> > > > > >> > simply
> > > > > drives
> > > > > >> me
> > > > > >> > and our client nuts...
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > On 31 October 2014 10:03, Andrei Mikhailovsky
> > > > > >> > <andrei@arhont.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >> Is there a feature request for this support or
should we open
> > > > > >> >> one? I
> > > > > >> would
> > > > > >> >> like to see this implemented for KVM.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> Andrei
> > > > > >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> > From: "Nux!" <nux@li.nux.ro>
> > > > > >> >> > To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, 30 October, 2014 11:25:10
PM
> > > > > >> >> > Subject: Re: XenServer
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> > Andrei, I am hopeful the next incarnation
of XenServer will
> > > > > >> >> > be much
> > > > > >> >> > better/modern, with support for CEPH, GlusterFS
etc.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> > Re KVM snapshotting, KVM can do live snapshots
of the
> > > > > volumes+memory
> > > > > >> >> > (you can do it with "virsh"), but ACS doesn't
support it;
> > > > > >> >> > forgot
> > > > > >> >> > why.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> > Lucian
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> > --
> > > > > >> >> > Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> > Nux!
> > > > > >> >> > www.nux.ro
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >> >> > > From: "Andrei Mikhailovsky" <andrei@arhont.com>
> > > > > >> >> > > To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > > >> >> > > Sent: Thursday, 30 October, 2014 21:24:06
> > > > > >> >> > > Subject: Re: XenServer
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> > > I would happily switch to XenServer once
they will have
> > > > > >> >> > > ceph
> > > > > >> >> > > support. I do
> > > > > >> >> > > prefer XenServer and the feature list
of ACS + XenServer
> > > > > >> >> > > is a bit
> > > > > >> >> > > better.
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > > It sucks not having proper snapshotting
in KVM where one
> > > > > >> >> > > can
> > > > > create
> > > > > >> >> > > the whole vm
> > > > > >> >> > > snapshot (volumes + memory) very quickly
without the need
> > > > > >> >> > > to
> > > > > bother
> > > > > >> >> > > snapshotting every volume and wait for
ages.
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > > Andrei
> > > > > >> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > >> From: "motty cruz" <motty.cruz@gmail.com>
> > > > > >> >> > >> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > > >> >> > >> Sent: Thursday, 30 October, 2014
8:43:32 PM
> > > > > >> >> > >> Subject: Re: XenServer
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > >> I am no expert by any means but my
personal opinion, I
> > > > > >> >> > >> really
> > > > > like
> > > > > >> >> > >> XenServer a lot better. I have a
cluster of about 5
> > > > > >> >> > >> machines
> > > > > >> >> > >> running
> > > > > >> >> > >> KVM,
> > > > > >> >> > >> ACS 4.3. I unable to do snapshot,
migrating VMs from one
> > > > > >> >> > >> host to
> > > > > >> >> > >> another
> > > > > >> >> > >> takes a long time. I had a very bad
experience with
> > > > > >> >> > >> "Balloon
> > > > > >> >> > >> driver",
> > > > > >> >> > >> I am
> > > > > >> >> > >> traumatize using KVM.
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > >> XenServer don't need to install cloudstack
agent is
> > > > > >> >> > >> already
> > > > > >> >> > >> integrated. I
> > > > > >> >> > >> am very happy with XenServer. I still
need to work out a
> > > > > >> >> > >> few
> > > > > >> >> > >> lingering
> > > > > >> >> > >> issues but thus far am a happy person.
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > >> Thanks,
> > > > > >> >> > >> -Motty
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > >> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 1:15 PM,
Andrei Mikhailovsky
> > > > > >> >> > >> <andrei@arhont.com>
> > > > > >> >> > >> wrote:
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > >> > I wold love to see the ability
to do proper
> > > > > >> >> > >> > snapshotting on
> > > > > KVM.
> > > > > >> >> > >> > XenServer
> > > > > >> >> > >> > does it so much better!
> > > > > >> >> > >> >
> > > > > >> >> > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >> >> > >> >
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > From: "Vladimir Melnik"
<v.melnik@uplink.ua>
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > Sent: Thursday, 30 October,
2014 8:09:17 PM
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > Subject: RE: XenServer
> > > > > >> >> > >> >
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > Oh, thank you so much,
folks, for your replies on
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > this
> > > > > topic!
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > Now
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > I
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > understand that I shouldn't
migrate to XenServer, as
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > I
> > > > > already
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > have
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > a bunch of hosts running
KVM and it really won't be
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > a good
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > idea
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > to
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > bread such a zoo.
> > > > > >> >> > >> >
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > The only thing that makes
me feel envy is an ability
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > to
> > > > > change
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > configuration of a virtual
machine without
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > restarting it.
> > > > > As I
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > know,
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > KVM doesn't support it
yet, am I right? Other
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > XenServer
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > features
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > don't seem to be so exciting
to me :)
> > > > > >> >> > >> >
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > One more time - thanks
to all who have helped me to
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > decide
> > > > > not
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > to
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > do
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > something that I would
regret.
> > > > > >> >> > >> >
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > Best regards,
> > > > > >> >> > >> > > V.
> > > > > >> >> > >> >
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > >> --
> > > > > >> >> > >> Thanks for your support,
> > > > > >> >> > > > Motty
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > --
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Andrija Panić
> > > > > >> > --------------------------------------
> > > > > >> > http://admintweets.com
> > > > > >> > --------------------------------------
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Andrija Panić
> > > > > > --------------------------------------
> > > > > > http://admintweets.com
> > > > > > --------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > --
> > >
> > > > Andrija Panić
> > > > --------------------------------------
> > > > http://admintweets.com
> > > > --------------------------------------
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Andrija Panić
> > --------------------------------------
> >   http://admintweets.com
> > --------------------------------------
> >
>



-- 

Andrija Panić
--------------------------------------
  http://admintweets.com
--------------------------------------

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