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From Nux! <...@li.nux.ro>
Subject Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
Date Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:05:39 GMT
Slightly pissed at the "switched to Openstack" remark.
Using Openstack as a means to "force/suggest" new features into ACS is silly. I also want
KVM snapshotting to happen, but I think there are more important things to fix first.

In my personal view, I wish ACS stopped completely development on new features for a while
and made the current features rock solid.

I know we need new features to keep developers happy who would otherwise slit their veins
from boredom, but I personally do not care that much for S3 compatibility or SDN or what not.
When my deployment will be large enough to need that I'll probably have enough money to develop
them myself (and contribute them back).

Most people do not need FreeIPA or who knows what other bells and whistles. 
I do like Openstack, I know & like some people involved with it and I use(d) it (was even
a mod on the RDO forum), but I don't want the bloody kitchen sink in my servers. I want peace
of mind and reliable services for my customers who also don't give a rat's arse about said
features; all they want is their application or site to work 24/7.

Personally I want everything that we have NOW fixed, polished; usage stats working (with SG
zones), proper backup and restore of volumes, security groups finalised (hello IPv6, it's
almost 2015!), no silly GUI mistakes or typos in new releases and so on.

Competing with Openstack head on is a dead end, stop chasing! Everybody pushes all sorts of
stuff into it which takes a lot of time, effort and money to get working, if at all.
Average Joe will not use that in production, just like he won't use Gentoo, Fedora or Archlinux
in production, it sucks; you use battle tested stuff like CentOS or Ubuntu LTS.

For Average "IT manager" Joe to be capable of using Openstack in production companies like
Mirantis or eNovance need to take their time, freeze it, slow it the fsck down, polish it,
decide which features can't be used actually (many, I bet!), package it in a sexy wrapping
and then put it up for sale (or download).

Basically they'll have to build a Cloudstack. We're already there! Sort of ... :-)

/rant

--
Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!

Nux!
www.nux.ro

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Outback Dingo" <outbackdingo@gmail.com>
> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
> Sent: Monday, 24 November, 2014 22:15:40
> Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?

> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <runseb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2014, at 4:03 PM, Andrei Mikhailovsky <andrei@arhont.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Yes, agree! Proper snapshotting is a must and an essential part of the
>> cloud in my world. Having this feature broken in KVM for many years is a
>> big blow to CloudStack in my opinion.
>> >
>> > I am already seeing on blogs and mailing lists people switching to
>> OpenStack because of this problem.
>>
> 
> there are many aspects of which cloustack is loosing ground fast to
> openstack. Even Ive moved away from CS due to deficiencies such as the NFS
> as secondary being required, vague support for open source SDN such as
> opendaylight, is another
> while CS is nice and quite easy to install, and get working, and being a
> big XEN fan, CS made it clean and simply to deploy, however, it does lack
> some of the higher end features and configuration aspects that are found in
> openstack. Now while I
> also find openstack to be very KVM aligned, as it requires a client be
> installed on XEN, where CS doesnt, Openstack has moved well ahead in
> storage and networking options, not boxing me in to high cost commercial
> solutions. I will credit CS people
> for great support in the past years over IRC, though lately even that seems
> waning, as as such there also seems to be more "commercial" support for
> openstack with the likes of mirantis, ibm, hp and others pushing turn key
> distros, open source some at that.
> I did love the simplicity of CS and XEN as a configuration, but felt the
> lacking in areas of "integration" with other technologies. Even openstack
> is working to integrate the freeIpa system, and opendaylight into the
> options, and it works well with ceph, gluster,
> and other storage systems. CS is simple, and in being that, they are
> loosing ground fast to the expansive capabilities openstack is offering
> with their latest release. I wish CS would expand their horizons a bit, and
> not appear so short sighted and narrow minded
> when it came to its offerings and integration. I know if I was running the
> product line currently I would be aligning CS with all the technologies
> becoming available, especially Software defined networking, and software
> defined storage. CS is great, but requires
> a larger feature set, more integration and further vision on trending
> technologies, yet it is just damn simple to install CS and XEN...... a big
> win there for CS, though Fuel and Helion appear to be quickly closing that
> gap.
> 
> 
> 
>>
>> Can you send links, I am curious !
>>
>> thxs
>>
>> > I hate to see people leaving CloudStack as I think it's fantastic
>> project and a really great community!
>> >
>> > Andrei
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >
>> >> From: "Andrija Panic" <andrija.panic@gmail.com>
>> >> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> Sent: Monday, 24 November, 2014 8:33:56 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>> >
>> >> So no CEPH support fot Xen, and no VM snapshot for KVM.
>> >
>> >> So, should I shoot my self with gun or with the pistol, that is the
>> >> question now :)
>> >
>> >> thx folks
>> >
>> >> On 24 November 2014 at 18:01, Adrian Lewis
>> >> <adrian@alsiconsulting.co.uk>
>> >> wrote:
>> >
>> >>> From what I've read there won’t be support for Ceph in Creedence
>> >>> (Xenserver
>> >>> 6.5) but it is on the cards for the following release (as should
>> >>> NFSv4 and
>> >>> a
>> >>> Centos 7 dom0). There's a blog post from Tim Mackey at:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> http://xenserver.org/discuss-virtualization/virtualization-blog/entry/beyond-creedence-xenserver-2015-planning.html
>> >>>
>> >>> and a Youtube video with a few updates here:
>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JFUkEfpXaQ
>> >>>
>> >>> All looks promising but I'm impatient :-(
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Andrija Panic [mailto:andrija.panic@gmail.com]
>> >>> Sent: 24 November 2014 15:08
>> >>> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >>> Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>> >>>
>> >>> THx Vadim - yes, I'm already using KVM with ceph for some time -
>> >>> works fine
>> >>> more or less :) thx
>> >>>
>> >>> On 24 November 2014 at 15:52, Vadim Kimlaychuk
>> >>> <Vadim.Kimlaychuk@elion.ee>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> XenServer 6.5 (or 7.0) is not released yet. You can download
>> >>>> alpha of
>> >>>> next release and try it, but it is definately not for production.
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> haven't personally tried it because Cloudstack does not support
>> >>>> RBD
>> >>>> storage type for XenServer yet. So you are absolutely right --
>> >>>> first
>> >>>> we need to wait for XenServer to release then we need to wait for
>> >>>> Cloudstack to implement those changes at backend.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I have used Ceph with KVM hypervisor for a short while. There
>> >>>> were
>> >>>> some points that I was not aware, but in general it worked well.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Vadim.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: Andrija Panic [mailto:andrija.panic@gmail.com]
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 4:22 PM
>> >>>> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >>>> Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> HI Vadim, thanks for info. That is what I understood = but the
>> >>>> new
>> >>>> XenServer 6.5 or whatever the name, shoudl be using kernel 3.10.x
>> >>>> for
>> >>>> dom0, so I guess even after that is supported, we will need to
>> >>>> wait
>> >>>> some time for the CloudStack implementation on this ?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks anyway
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 24 November 2014 at 15:00, Vadim Kimlaychuk
>> >>>> <Vadim.Kimlaychuk@elion.ee>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Hi Andrija,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> For XenServer 6.2 it is not possible yet. Look for supported
>> >>>>> SR-s
>> >>>>> here:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> http://docs.vmd.citrix.com/XenServer/6.2.0/1.0/en_gb/reference.html#ck
>> >>>> _reference_storage_repository_types
>> >>>>> Somewhere in internet I saw information that RBD support is
>> >>>>> scheduled for the next major XenServer release. Can't find the
>> >>>>> link
>> >>>>> right away.
>> >>>>> The problem connected to Ceph + RBD as primary storage for
>> >>>>> XenServer is old dom0 kernel that does not allow RBD storage
>> >>>>> type.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Vadim.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> From: Andrija Panic [mailto:andrija.panic@gmail.com]
>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 2:06 PM
>> >>>>> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >>>>> Subject: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi guys,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> anyone running ZenServer with CEPH as primary storage ?
>> >>>>> I read some info that there is support for CEPH inside
>> >>>>> XenServer
>> >>>>> from last year - but since I never actually tried this - thus
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> question.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Andrija Panić
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Andrija Panić
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>>
>> >>> Andrija Panić
>> >>>
>> >
>> >> --
>> >
>> >> Andrija Panić
>>

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