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From Vadim Kimlaychuk <Vadim.Kimlayc...@Elion.ee>
Subject RE: Xenserver and CEPH ?
Date Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:55:22 GMT
I was at DEV list for a short while, but couldn't get into the process.  At our organization
release process requires a lot of "approvement" steps in order to get everything tested. Still
 have bugs. :)
Personally I am a bit afraid to change anything that is not aligned with development process
which I don't understand. 
May be I need to try?  Anyway should go to check the source code in order to understand how
things work.

Vadim.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sebastien Goasguen [mailto:runseb@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:39 AM
To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?


On Nov 25, 2014, at 2:59 AM, Andrija Panic <andrija.panic@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1 for what Nux said - freezing new development for CloudStack and
> polishing new stuff.
> 
> We already discussed this during CCCEU14, and I really think this 
> should be priority - but discussion during CCCEU14 and really doing it 
> as discused are 2 different things, hoping developers will align to the goals...
> Because, I understand that some developers want to work on new 
> features, and that fixing bugs and improving current stuff is more 
> boring - but it makes no sense to me to make new stuff without current 
> one not working good in some areas.

In my opinion we are making a mistake in our community in splitting the users and the developers.

There seems to be a thinking that only folks that are on the dev list can actually fix the
code, docs etc.

Anyone can, this is open source at the Apache Software Foundation.

Anyone can join the dev@ list and help there, also you don't need to be on the dev list to
submit patches, submit bugs , correct the docs.

There is no such thing as "the devs" and "the users".

When we ask for things to be fixed, we can fix it ourselves. The problem like in any open
source software is that CloudStack as a project does not have developers on staff that can
fix things on-demand. We are very much dependent on whoever works on the code to fix things.

In JIRA there is a way to vote for issues.

So what I suggest is that everyone takes a bit of time, to vote on their top 5 issues, once
we have significant amount of votes we can publicize amongst ourselves and see who will have
time and knowledge to be able to fix them.

-sebastien

> 
> On 25 November 2014 at 08:28, Outback Dingo <outbackdingo@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 5:51 PM, <esanders83@hushmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Good evening,
>>> Now that we have two vendors on here.  What are your thoughts on 
>>> opennebula?  Not trying to be troll or firestart(great song) just 
>>> trying to get some input.
>>> 
>> 
>> If you have a fairly simple straightforward configuration and dont 
>> need bells and whistles there is nothing wrong with Cloudstack.
>> It is in fact extremely easy to deploy...... and simple to configure 
>> as long as you fall inside their requirements.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 11/24/2014 at 7:17 PM, "Ron Wheeler"  wrote:+1
>>> 
>>> On 24/11/2014 8:05 PM, Nux! wrote:
>>>> Slightly pissed at the "switched to Openstack" remark.
>>>> Using Openstack as a means to "force/suggest" new features into ACS
>>> is silly. I also want KVM snapshotting to happen, but I think there 
>>> are more important things to fix first.
>>>> 
>>>> In my personal view, I wish ACS stopped completely development on
>>> new features for a while and made the current features rock solid.
>>>> 
>>>> I know we need new features to keep developers happy who would
>>> otherwise slit their veins from boredom, but I personally do not 
>>> care that much for S3 compatibility or SDN or what not. When my 
>>> deployment will be large enough to need that I'll probably have 
>>> enough money to develop them myself (and contribute them back).
>>>> 
>>>> Most people do not need FreeIPA or who knows what other bells and
>>> whistles.
>>>> I do like Openstack, I know & like some people involved with it and
>>> I use(d) it (was even a mod on the RDO forum), but I don't want the 
>>> bloody kitchen sink in my servers. I want peace of mind and reliable 
>>> services for my customers who also don't give a rat's arse about 
>>> said features; all they want is their application or site to work 24/7.
>>>> 
>>>> Personally I want everything that we have NOW fixed, polished; 
>>>> usage
>>> stats working (with SG zones), proper backup and restore of volumes, 
>>> security groups finalised (hello IPv6, it's almost 2015!), no silly 
>>> GUI mistakes or typos in new releases and so on.
>>>> 
>>>> Competing with Openstack head on is a dead end, stop chasing!
>>> Everybody pushes all sorts of stuff into it which takes a lot of 
>>> time, effort and money to get working, if at all.
>>>> Average Joe will not use that in production, just like he won't use
>>> Gentoo, Fedora or Archlinux in production, it sucks; you use battle 
>>> tested stuff like CentOS or Ubuntu LTS.
>>>> 
>>>> For Average "IT manager" Joe to be capable of using Openstack in
>>> production companies like Mirantis or eNovance need to take their 
>>> time, freeze it, slow it the fsck down, polish it, decide which 
>>> features can't be used actually (many, I bet!), package it in a sexy 
>>> wrapping and then put it up for sale (or download).
>>>> 
>>>> Basically they'll have to build a Cloudstack. We're already there!
>>> Sort of ... :-)
>>>> 
>>>> /rant
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!
>>>> 
>>>> Nux!
>>>> www.nux.ro
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Outback Dingo"
>>>>> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>>>>> Sent: Monday, 24 November, 2014 22:15:40
>>>>> Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Sebastien Goasguen
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Nov 24, 2014, at 4:03 PM, Andrei Mikhailovsky
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yes, agree! Proper snapshotting is a must and an essential part
>>> of the
>>>>>> cloud in my world. Having this feature broken in KVM for many
>>> years is a
>>>>>> big blow to CloudStack in my opinion.
>>>>>>> I am already seeing on blogs and mailing lists people switching
>>> to
>>>>>> OpenStack because of this problem.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> there are many aspects of which cloustack is loosing ground fast 
>>>>> to openstack. Even Ive moved away from CS due to deficiencies such 
>>>>> as
>>> the NFS
>>>>> as secondary being required, vague support for open source SDN 
>>>>> such
>>> as
>>>>> opendaylight, is another
>>>>> while CS is nice and quite easy to install, and get working, and
>>> being a
>>>>> big XEN fan, CS made it clean and simply to deploy, however, it
>>> does lack
>>>>> some of the higher end features and configuration aspects that are
>>> found in
>>>>> openstack. Now while I
>>>>> also find openstack to be very KVM aligned, as it requires a 
>>>>> client
>>> be
>>>>> installed on XEN, where CS doesnt, Openstack has moved well ahead
>>> in
>>>>> storage and networking options, not boxing me in to high cost
>>> commercial
>>>>> solutions. I will credit CS people for great support in the past 
>>>>> years over IRC, though lately even
>>> that seems
>>>>> waning, as as such there also seems to be more "commercial" 
>>>>> support
>>> for
>>>>> openstack with the likes of mirantis, ibm, hp and others pushing
>>> turn key
>>>>> distros, open source some at that.
>>>>> I did love the simplicity of CS and XEN as a configuration, but
>>> felt the
>>>>> lacking in areas of "integration" with other technologies. Even
>>> openstack
>>>>> is working to integrate the freeIpa system, and opendaylight into
>>> the
>>>>> options, and it works well with ceph, gluster, and other storage 
>>>>> systems. CS is simple, and in being that, they
>>> are
>>>>> loosing ground fast to the expansive capabilities openstack is
>>> offering
>>>>> with their latest release. I wish CS would expand their horizons a
>>> bit, and
>>>>> not appear so short sighted and narrow minded when it came to its 
>>>>> offerings and integration. I know if I was
>>> running the
>>>>> product line currently I would be aligning CS with all the
>>> technologies
>>>>> becoming available, especially Software defined networking, and
>>> software
>>>>> defined storage. CS is great, but requires a larger feature set, 
>>>>> more integration and further vision on
>>> trending
>>>>> technologies, yet it is just damn simple to install CS and
>>> XEN...... a big
>>>>> win there for CS, though Fuel and Helion appear to be quickly
>>> closing that
>>>>> gap.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Can you send links, I am curious !
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> thxs
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I hate to see people leaving CloudStack as I think it's 
>>>>>>> fantastic
>>>>>> project and a really great community!
>>>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: "Andrija Panic"
>>>>>>>> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, 24 November, 2014 8:33:56 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>>>>>>>> So no CEPH support fot Xen, and no VM snapshot for KVM.
>>>>>>>> So, should I shoot my self with gun or with the pistol, that
is
>>> the
>>>>>>>> question now :)
>>>>>>>> thx folks
>>>>>>>> On 24 November 2014 at 18:01, Adrian Lewis
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> From what I've read there won’t be support for Ceph
in
>>> Creedence
>>>>>>>>> (Xenserver
>>>>>>>>> 6.5) but it is on the cards for the following release
(as
>>> should
>>>>>>>>> NFSv4 and
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> Centos 7 dom0). There's a blog post from Tim Mackey at:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> http://xenserver.org/discuss-virtualization/virtualization-blog/entry
>> /beyond-creedence-xenserver-2015-planning.html
>>>>>>>>> and a Youtube video with a few updates here:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JFUkEfpXaQ
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> All looks promising but I'm impatient :-(
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Andrija Panic [mailto:andrija.panic@gmail.com]
>>>>>>>>> Sent: 24 November 2014 15:08
>>>>>>>>> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> THx Vadim - yes, I'm already using KVM with ceph for
some time
>>> -
>>>>>>>>> works fine
>>>>>>>>> more or less :) thx
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 24 November 2014 at 15:52, Vadim Kimlaychuk
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> XenServer 6.5 (or 7.0) is not released yet. You can
download 
>>>>>>>>>> alpha of next release and try it, but it is definately
not 
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>> production.
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> haven't personally tried it because Cloudstack does
not
>>> support
>>>>>>>>>> RBD
>>>>>>>>>> storage type for XenServer yet. So you are absolutely
right 
>>>>>>>>>> -- first we need to wait for XenServer to release
then we 
>>>>>>>>>> need to wait
>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Cloudstack to implement those changes at backend.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I have used Ceph with KVM hypervisor for a short
while. There 
>>>>>>>>>> were some points that I was not aware, but in general
it 
>>>>>>>>>> worked
>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Vadim.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Andrija Panic [mailto:andrija.panic@gmail.com]
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 4:22 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> HI Vadim, thanks for info. That is what I understood
= but 
>>>>>>>>>> the new XenServer 6.5 or whatever the name, shoudl
be using 
>>>>>>>>>> kernel
>>> 3.10.x
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> dom0, so I guess even after that is supported, we
will need 
>>>>>>>>>> to wait some time for the CloudStack implementation
on this ?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks anyway
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 24 November 2014 at 15:00, Vadim Kimlaychuk
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Andrija,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> For XenServer 6.2 it is not possible yet. Look
for supported 
>>>>>>>>>>> SR-s
>>>>>>>>>>> here:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> http://docs.vmd.citrix.com/XenServer/6.2.0/1.0/en_gb/reference.html#
>>> ck
>>>>>>>>>> _reference_storage_repository_types
>>>>>>>>>>> Somewhere in internet I saw information that
RBD support is 
>>>>>>>>>>> scheduled for the next major XenServer release.
Can't find
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> link
>>>>>>>>>>> right away.
>>>>>>>>>>> The problem connected to Ceph + RBD as primary
storage for 
>>>>>>>>>>> XenServer is old dom0 kernel that does not allow
RBD storage 
>>>>>>>>>>> type.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Vadim.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Andrija Panic [mailto:andrija.panic@gmail.com]
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 2:06 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> anyone running ZenServer with CEPH as primary
storage ?
>>>>>>>>>>> I read some info that there is support for CEPH
inside 
>>>>>>>>>>> XenServer from last year - but since I never
actually tried 
>>>>>>>>>>> this - thus the question.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Andrija Panić
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Andrija Panić
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Andrija Panić
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Andrija Panić
>>> --
>>> Ron Wheeler
>>> President
>>> Artifact Software Inc
>>> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
>>> skype: ronaldmwheeler
>>> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Andrija Panić

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