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From Nux! <...@li.nux.ro>
Subject Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
Date Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:10:03 GMT
Andrei,

There's a thread "LTS Releases" in the dev list, we should continue this discussion there.

--
Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!

Nux!
www.nux.ro

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrei Mikhailovsky" <andrei@arhont.com>
> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 November, 2014 13:02:00
> Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?

> +1 for the LTS releases. Majority of falks in production needs to have a stable
> release.
> 
> I agree that it will make the release cycle more complex, however, if the result
> will improve the stability of the product i think it's worth the extra hustle.
> 
> Also, it might improve the release times as current releases are often delayed
> by many months!
> 
> I want to see the CloudStack as the rock solid cloud platform rather than a
> bloated oversized sponge full of holes. I am sure a lot of people will agree.
> 
> Andrei
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> 
> From: "Erik Weber" <terbolous@gmail.com>
> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 November, 2014 10:21:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
> 
> Those who wants the new features? Those who're not running production?
> Labs?
> 
> I agree that the idea isn't bulletproof, and might not even be possible
> with the way things are, but I do like the thought of LTS.
> 
> Erik
> 
> On Tue Nov 25 2014 at 10:51:32 AM Nux! <nux@li.nux.ro> wrote:
> 
>> Erik,
>> 
>> It will complicate release management and it will also attract most of the
>> users.. who will tests the rest of the releases?
>> 
>> However as someone who is using CentOS instead of Fedora, I do like the
>> idea. :-)
>> 
>> Would be interesting to hear ideas from some of the more hard core devs on
>> this.
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!
>> 
>> Nux!
>> www.nux.ro
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Erik Weber" <terbolous@gmail.com>
>> > To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> > Sent: Tuesday, 25 November, 2014 09:34:53
>> > Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>> 
>> > How about a LTS version (basically what 4.3 currently is) that undergoes
>> > longer testing and receives bugfix releases for a certain amount of time?
>> > 
>> > This is not a true proposal, just venting the idea. I'd even say that new
>> > features would have to be in one normal release before it's included in a
>> > LTS release.
>> > 
>> > One drawback is that it most likely complicates release management.
>> > 
>> > --
>> > Erik
>> > 
>> > On Tue Nov 25 2014 at 2:06:40 AM Nux! <nux@li.nux.ro> wrote:
>> > 
>> >> Slightly pissed at the "switched to Openstack" remark.
>> >> Using Openstack as a means to "force/suggest" new features into ACS is
>> >> silly. I also want KVM snapshotting to happen, but I think there are
>> more
>> >> important things to fix first.
>> >> 
>> >> In my personal view, I wish ACS stopped completely development on new
>> >> features for a while and made the current features rock solid.
>> >> 
>> >> I know we need new features to keep developers happy who would otherwise
>> >> slit their veins from boredom, but I personally do not care that much
>> for
>> >> S3 compatibility or SDN or what not. When my deployment will be large
>> >> enough to need that I'll probably have enough money to develop them
>> myself
>> >> (and contribute them back).
>> >> 
>> >> Most people do not need FreeIPA or who knows what other bells and
>> whistles.
>> >> I do like Openstack, I know & like some people involved with it and
I
>> >> use(d) it (was even a mod on the RDO forum), but I don't want the bloody
>> >> kitchen sink in my servers. I want peace of mind and reliable services
>> for
>> >> my customers who also don't give a rat's arse about said features; all
>> they
>> >> want is their application or site to work 24/7.
>> >> 
>> >> Personally I want everything that we have NOW fixed, polished; usage
>> stats
>> >> working (with SG zones), proper backup and restore of volumes, security
>> >> groups finalised (hello IPv6, it's almost 2015!), no silly GUI mistakes
>> or
>> >> typos in new releases and so on.
>> >> 
>> >> Competing with Openstack head on is a dead end, stop chasing! Everybody
>> >> pushes all sorts of stuff into it which takes a lot of time, effort and
>> >> money to get working, if at all.
>> >> Average Joe will not use that in production, just like he won't use
>> >> Gentoo, Fedora or Archlinux in production, it sucks; you use battle
>> tested
>> >> stuff like CentOS or Ubuntu LTS.
>> >> 
>> >> For Average "IT manager" Joe to be capable of using Openstack in
>> >> production companies like Mirantis or eNovance need to take their time,
>> >> freeze it, slow it the fsck down, polish it, decide which features
>> can't be
>> >> used actually (many, I bet!), package it in a sexy wrapping and then
>> put it
>> >> up for sale (or download).
>> >> 
>> >> Basically they'll have to build a Cloudstack. We're already there! Sort
>> of
>> >> ... :-)
>> >> 
>> >> /rant
>> >> 
>> >> --
>> >> Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!
>> >> 
>> >> Nux!
>> >> www.nux.ro
>> >> 
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Outback Dingo" <outbackdingo@gmail.com>
>> >> > To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> > Sent: Monday, 24 November, 2014 22:15:40
>> >> > Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>> >> 
>> >> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <runseb@gmail.com
>> > 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> On Nov 24, 2014, at 4:03 PM, Andrei Mikhailovsky <andrei@arhont.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> > Yes, agree! Proper snapshotting is a must and an essential
part of
>> the
>> >> >> cloud in my world. Having this feature broken in KVM for many years
>> is a
>> >> >> big blow to CloudStack in my opinion.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > I am already seeing on blogs and mailing lists people switching
to
>> >> >> OpenStack because of this problem.
>> >> >> 
>> >> > 
>> >> > there are many aspects of which cloustack is loosing ground fast to
>> >> > openstack. Even Ive moved away from CS due to deficiencies such as
the
>> >> NFS
>> >> > as secondary being required, vague support for open source SDN such
as
>> >> > opendaylight, is another
>> >> > while CS is nice and quite easy to install, and get working, and
>> being a
>> >> > big XEN fan, CS made it clean and simply to deploy, however, it does
>> lack
>> >> > some of the higher end features and configuration aspects that are
>> found
>> >> in
>> >> > openstack. Now while I
>> >> > also find openstack to be very KVM aligned, as it requires a client
be
>> >> > installed on XEN, where CS doesnt, Openstack has moved well ahead in
>> >> > storage and networking options, not boxing me in to high cost
>> commercial
>> >> > solutions. I will credit CS people
>> >> > for great support in the past years over IRC, though lately even that
>> >> seems
>> >> > waning, as as such there also seems to be more "commercial" support
>> for
>> >> > openstack with the likes of mirantis, ibm, hp and others pushing turn
>> key
>> >> > distros, open source some at that.
>> >> > I did love the simplicity of CS and XEN as a configuration, but felt
>> the
>> >> > lacking in areas of "integration" with other technologies. Even
>> openstack
>> >> > is working to integrate the freeIpa system, and opendaylight into the
>> >> > options, and it works well with ceph, gluster,
>> >> > and other storage systems. CS is simple, and in being that, they are
>> >> > loosing ground fast to the expansive capabilities openstack is
>> offering
>> >> > with their latest release. I wish CS would expand their horizons a
>> bit,
>> >> and
>> >> > not appear so short sighted and narrow minded
>> >> > when it came to its offerings and integration. I know if I was running
>> >> the
>> >> > product line currently I would be aligning CS with all the
>> technologies
>> >> > becoming available, especially Software defined networking, and
>> software
>> >> > defined storage. CS is great, but requires
>> >> > a larger feature set, more integration and further vision on trending
>> >> > technologies, yet it is just damn simple to install CS and XEN......
a
>> >> big
>> >> > win there for CS, though Fuel and Helion appear to be quickly closing
>> >> that
>> >> > gap.
>> >> > 
>> >> > 
>> >> > 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Can you send links, I am curious !
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> thxs
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> > I hate to see people leaving CloudStack as I think it's fantastic
>> >> >> project and a really great community!
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > Andrei
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> >> From: "Andrija Panic" <andrija.panic@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, 24 November, 2014 8:33:56 PM
>> >> >> >> Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> >> So no CEPH support fot Xen, and no VM snapshot for KVM.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> >> So, should I shoot my self with gun or with the pistol,
that is
>> the
>> >> >> >> question now :)
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> >> thx folks
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> >> On 24 November 2014 at 18:01, Adrian Lewis
>> >> >> >> <adrian@alsiconsulting.co.uk>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> >>> From what I've read there won’t be support for Ceph
in Creedence
>> >> >> >>> (Xenserver
>> >> >> >>> 6.5) but it is on the cards for the following release
(as should
>> >> >> >>> NFSv4 and
>> >> >> >>> a
>> >> >> >>> Centos 7 dom0). There's a blog post from Tim Mackey
at:
>> >> >> >>> 
>> >> >> >>> 
>> >> >> http://xenserver.org/discuss-virtualization/virtualization-
>> >> blog/entry/beyond-creedence-xenserver-2015-planning.html
>> >> >> >>> 
>> >> >> >>> and a Youtube video with a few updates here:
>> >> >> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JFUkEfpXaQ
>> >> >> >>> 
>> >> >> >>> All looks promising but I'm impatient :-(
>> >> >> >>> 
>> >> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >>> From: Andrija Panic [mailto:andrija.panic@gmail.com]
>> >> >> >>> Sent: 24 November 2014 15:08
>> >> >> >>> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> >> >>> Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>> >> >> >>> 
>> >> >> >>> THx Vadim - yes, I'm already using KVM with ceph for
some time -
>> >> >> >>> works fine
>> >> >> >>> more or less :) thx
>> >> >> >>> 
>> >> >> >>> On 24 November 2014 at 15:52, Vadim Kimlaychuk
>> >> >> >>> <Vadim.Kimlaychuk@elion.ee>
>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> 
>> >> >> >>>> XenServer 6.5 (or 7.0) is not released yet. You
can download
>> >> >> >>>> alpha of
>> >> >> >>>> next release and try it, but it is definately
not for
>> production.
>> >> >> >>>> I
>> >> >> >>>> haven't personally tried it because Cloudstack
does not support
>> >> >> >>>> RBD
>> >> >> >>>> storage type for XenServer yet. So you are absolutely
right --
>> >> >> >>>> first
>> >> >> >>>> we need to wait for XenServer to release then
we need to wait
>> for
>> >> >> >>>> Cloudstack to implement those changes at backend.
>> >> >> >>>> 
>> >> >> >>>> I have used Ceph with KVM hypervisor for a short
while. There
>> >> >> >>>> were
>> >> >> >>>> some points that I was not aware, but in general
it worked well.
>> >> >> >>>> 
>> >> >> >>>> Vadim.
>> >> >> >>>> 
>> >> >> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >>>> From: Andrija Panic [mailto:andrija.panic@gmail.com]
>> >> >> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 4:22 PM
>> >> >> >>>> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> >> >>>> Subject: Re: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>> >> >> >>>> 
>> >> >> >>>> HI Vadim, thanks for info. That is what I understood
= but the
>> >> >> >>>> new
>> >> >> >>>> XenServer 6.5 or whatever the name, shoudl be
using kernel
>> 3.10.x
>> >> >> >>>> for
>> >> >> >>>> dom0, so I guess even after that is supported,
we will need to
>> >> >> >>>> wait
>> >> >> >>>> some time for the CloudStack implementation on
this ?
>> >> >> >>>> 
>> >> >> >>>> Thanks anyway
>> >> >> >>>> 
>> >> >> >>>> On 24 November 2014 at 15:00, Vadim Kimlaychuk
>> >> >> >>>> <Vadim.Kimlaychuk@elion.ee>
>> >> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>> 
>> >> >> >>>>> Hi Andrija,
>> >> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >> >>>>> For XenServer 6.2 it is not possible yet.
Look for supported
>> >> >> >>>>> SR-s
>> >> >> >>>>> here:
>> >> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >> >>>> 
>> >> >> http://docs.vmd.citrix.com/XenServer/6.2.0/1.0/en_gb/
>> reference.html#ck
>> >> >> >>>> _reference_storage_repository_types
>> >> >> >>>>> Somewhere in internet I saw information that
RBD support is
>> >> >> >>>>> scheduled for the next major XenServer release.
Can't find the
>> >> >> >>>>> link
>> >> >> >>>>> right away.
>> >> >> >>>>> The problem connected to Ceph + RBD as primary
storage for
>> >> >> >>>>> XenServer is old dom0 kernel that does not
allow RBD storage
>> >> >> >>>>> type.
>> >> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >> >>>>> Regards,
>> >> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >> >>>>> Vadim.
>> >> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >>>>> From: Andrija Panic [mailto:andrija.panic@gmail.com]
>> >> >> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 2:06 PM
>> >> >> >>>>> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> >> >>>>> Subject: Xenserver and CEPH ?
>> >> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >> >>>>> Hi guys,
>> >> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >> >>>>> anyone running ZenServer with CEPH as primary
storage ?
>> >> >> >>>>> I read some info that there is support for
CEPH inside
>> >> >> >>>>> XenServer
>> >> >> >>>>> from last year - but since I never actually
tried this - thus
>> >> >> >>>>> the
>> >> >> >>>>> question.
>> >> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >> >>>>> Thanks,
>> >> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >> >>>>> --
>> >> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >> >>>>> Andrija Panić
>> >> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >> >>>> 
>> >> >> >>>> 
>> >> >> >>>> 
>> >> >> >>>> --
>> >> >> >>>> 
>> >> >> >>>> Andrija Panić
>> >> >> >>>> 
>> >> >> >>> 
>> >> >> >>> 
>> >> >> >>> 
>> >> >> >>> --
>> >> >> >>> 
>> >> >> >>> Andrija Panić
>> >> >> >>> 
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> >> Andrija Panić
>> >> >> 

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