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To: marketing@cloudstack.apache.org Message-ID: <2067020087.10746.1425665024552.JavaMail.zimbra@li.nux.ro> In-Reply-To: References: <54F7C32F.1060509@gmail.com> <8440DF1F-3334-4917-B116-3EA6ED9E4FB7@gmail.com> <54F8DF15.7050501@gmail.com> <8147e449c4c34204d35905ef10b1f77e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: CloudStack Conferences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.6.0_GA_1153 (ZimbraWebClient - FF31 (Linux)/8.6.0_GA_1153) Thread-Topic: CloudStack Conferences Thread-Index: AQHQVu50aegkKW1rEUaifM/YWSWYYp0NdpKAgAAhTQCAAOTWAIAABJ+AgABua4CAALAaAIAACaMgmq0RUCM= X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org +1 for Dublin-only I would have preferred London or Paris (easy to reach, bigger audiences) to= be honest, but I understand there is a context here. Good points, Adrian. Lucian -- Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology! Nux! www.nux.ro ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Giles Sirett" > To: marketing@cloudstack.apache.org > Sent: Friday, 6 March, 2015 17:11:36 > Subject: RE: CloudStack Conferences > Adrian >=20 >=20 > The problem here IS is that we're trying to tick two, quite different, bo= xes: > 1. increase project awareness by doing MORE, smaller events for people to= find > out about ACS. For me the 5 x1 day format works very well for that > 2. provide an opportunity for the existing community to meet & share >=20 >=20 > The 5 x events *should* achieve the first, but I think they may be > counter-intuitive to the 2nd. > However, as Arjan et al explain this all takes time & money and the situa= tion is > we haven=E2=80=99t got enough of either to achieve both of these objectiv= es >=20 > I think you have summarised really well here and suggested a very pragmat= ic way > forward. >=20 > I really do have to agree that I don=E2=80=99t think Budpaest & Dublin ca= n both fly, > being so close to each other. We should focus our efforts on one or the o= ther. > For me, that would have to be Dublin: there is enough ACS people within a= n hours > flight, and I think cloudopen is likely to be a better attended event tha= n > apachecon > Of course, I would love to see both being successful (especially since I = just > paid to sponsor them all :-) ) - but I don=E2=80=99t think we've got eno= ugh cycles > between us to get 2 x agendas organised - if somebody thinks different an= d is > prepared to take on a 2nd agenda within a week , please shout >=20 > Hopefully there will be enough critical mass for Austin & Seattle. I don= =E2=80=99t think > Tokyo will be a problem at all >=20 > Although I am always fearful of trying to do DIY conferences - I think, i= f we > can find the space to bolt on a community day (or two) around the Dublin = event, > we could probably overcome the objections that many people have of not wa= nting > to travel for only a 1 day event. >=20 > We can get the EU user group people involved (looking back at people like= you > Adrian :-) ) and combine our autumn meeting and I'm SURE we can find som= e > meeting space in Dblin for a couple of days >=20 > Thinking about it: there is also another way of looking at this. > The cloudstack day in Dublin is co-located with linux cloud open. These a= really > good events (I've been to the last two) - they have a big attendance an= d they > are, well, focussed on "open cloud" - that=E2=80=99s us ! > At last years, there were 4 (I think) ACS talks at cloudopen. > Theres nothing to stop us, as a community, submitting talks to that confe= rence > and using it as somewhere to "congregate". > If we ask very very very nicely - we could maybe find out if theres a spa= re room > during that event we could use for a hackathon stlye thing for Cloudstac= k >=20 > Either way: I think we could, as a community, decide to be at one of thes= e en > mass >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Kind Regards > Giles >=20 > D: +44 20 3603 0541 | M: +44 796 111 2055 > Giles.Sirett@shapeblue.com >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Adrian Lewis [mailto:adrian@alsiconsulting.co.uk] >> Sent: 06 March 2015 16:02 >> To: marketing@cloudstack.apache.org >> Subject: RE: CloudStack Conferences >> >> My opinion (not sure how much it counts but anyway) is that there are a >> number of problems here that could be solved with relative ease. Looking= in >> particular at Dublin/Budapest, I'd say that these are very good candidat= es for >> merging. The issues I see with having these as separate events are: >> >> 1. Being a relatively small community still, we should aim to get togeth= er >> physically as much as possible. Mailing lists are great but it's getting= people >> together that seems to make stuff happen. Communities don't work well if >> they're split up. Clearly, a single global conference causes other issue= s but >> fragmenting unnecessarily seems counter-productive to me. >> >> 2. As already mentioned, most visitors will need to fly and the differen= ce >> between the cost of a flight to Budapest vs a cost of a flight to Dublin= for >> most >> candidates for either event will not be all that significant when all co= sts for >> attending are added up. >> >> 3. We may not have big sponsors, pots of cash to spare, or unlimited >> organisational resources so combining the two venues would surely help >> immensely in that regard. Economies of scale come into it as sponsors ar= e more >> likely to want to chip in if there's greater attendance at a single even= t than >> two >> smaller ones. >> >> 4. People are less likely to bother even registering (or getting expense= s >> approved) if, as many have already mentioned, the event is just a single= day and >> justifying the efforts/costs then becomes a real issue. I understand tha= t >> previously colocated events with ApacheCon haven't actually resulted in = many >> people going to both. Ilya has mentioned this as well. >> >> In addition to combining the two events, I think that it should be relat= ively >> easy >> to have a single 'official' day that is well funded and organised but ha= ve one >> (or >> even two) day events before or after the main event that can be informal= ly >> organised by the community. Call them hackathons if you will but not >> necessarily dedicated to writing code - perhaps conduct panel discussion= s >> around marketing, direction of the project, different use-cases (or mark= ets), >> and >> some coding as well. If ShapeBlue were interested in doing some 'sample >> chapters' of their training courses as well I'm sure that would go down = well for >> those new to ACS (perhaps the day before the main event). These addition= al >> days could be done without any AV, catering, presents, sponsored evening >> events etc. >> I'm quite sure most people wouldn't complain about buying their own >> drinks/food. >> >> As for a venue however, this is the hole in my argument. Is it safe to s= ay that >> there are enough ACS types in Dublin that something could be organised? >> Would Paddy Power be able to supply meeting rooms for example? >> Is there an academic community in Dublin that might be happy to assist w= ith >> these sorts of informal events? Even a hotel with a bar/restaurant might= be >> willing if we agreed to a minimum spend on food/drink and that we'd put = it as >> the top listed suggestion for where to stay when attending. >> They might even give us a discount on rooms. >> >> Obviously if it appears that we do have resources to improve these addit= ional >> informal days then great but in terms of commitment, we could set a much >> lower requirement vs trying to run a full two or three-day event. Doesn'= t mean >> that the event can't autoscale with demand! >> >> How does that resound with everyone? >> >> Adrian >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arjan [mailto:eriarjan@gmail.com] >> Sent: 06 March 2015 05:32 >> To: marketing@cloudstack.apache.org >> Subject: Re: CloudStack Conferences >> >> Price is mostly venue, catering, audio video, evening events. (Gifts) >> >> Time is number of tracks, speakers, sponsors, look and feel. >> >> So you can fiddle around with combinations. Two day low profile single t= rack >> could be easier than 1 day the whole shebang with party and speaker dinn= er etc >> >> Rgds, >> >> Arjan >> >> > On 5 mrt. 2015, at 23:56, ilya musayev >> wrote: >> > >> > Arjan and Sebastian >> > >> > Thanks for sharing your experiences in setting up the conferences, >> > >> > Just curious would 2 day events be more justifiable, easier to >> > organize >> and also less expensive? >> > >> > Thanks >> > ilya >> > >> >> On 3/5/15 2:39 PM, Arjan wrote: >> >> Thanks Seb, >> >> >> >> I agree. We wanted to organize ccceu14 again, but the effort on >> organizing another 3 day event was too big. Next to that for Amsterdam w= e >> have put in serious money together with Citrix. >> >> >> >> So 3 day events work, but you need time and / or funds. >> >> >> >> A one day event is much easier. Single track. Smaller location etc et= c. >> >> >> >> I am in favor of the hybrid approach though, but most likely the 1 >> >> day >> events will happen more. Maybe it is even an option to do the devops day= s >> approach. Every city can organize one as a sort of franchise model. >> >> >> >> Arjan >> >> >> >>> On 5 mrt. 2015, at 10:00, Sebastien Goasguen >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Morning folks, >> >>> >> >>> This is a good point, however like Chip mentioned we would need >> sponsors. >> >>> >> >>> Organizing a 3 day event is a big task, you need to find a location >> that suits people, you need to pay for that location, you need a program= , you >> need attendance, you need sponsors etc. >> >>> >> >>> For Amsterdam, Schuberg took the lead role. Citrix was the main >> financial backer with Schuberg. I believe it basically took ~3 people fu= ll time >> from Schuberg for several months to organize things the way it was, plus= a lot >> of >> time and energy from other folks to get sponsors, drive attendance etc. = The >> event cost ~200k euros and was in the black at the end (no secret there)= . >> >>> >> >>> For Denver and Budapest we aligned with the ASF and leveraged the >> Linux Foundation to do the logistics and help get sponsors. It worked ou= t but it >> is >> still a lot of effort to get the program together, help LF reach out to = sponsors >> etc. >> As a side note, even though these were 3 day events, lots of folks arriv= e on >> tutorial day, spend the keynote day and leave at night or in the morning= . That's >> why I pushed for a poster session at the end of Budapest, because typica= lly >> folks >> leave before and we end up with semi empty sessions in the last afternoo= n. >> >>> >> >>> The bottom line is that it is a question of cost, attendance, who >> takes the lead in planning and what does the event look like. We could o= rganize >> three day events much cheaply. Something that comes to mind is configura= tion >> management camp in Ghent. It drives 400 people, is hosted at the univers= ity. >> There is almost no sponsors/booth, no signage, no video recording, very = little >> lunch etc. But if we want something like Denver or Budapest, we are look= ing at 6 >> figures plus the human investment. >> >>> >> >>> CloudStack is a brand owned by this community, so anyone here is >> >>> free >> and should feel entitled to organize its own CloudStack Day close to hom= e. >> Norway, India etc. It could be a 30 people event or it could grow into i= ts own >> 300/500 people event. The Japanese community for example organizes >> CloudStack Japan on their own and drives 500 people. >> >>> >> >>> Now all these 1 day events are co-located (before, after or during) >> the linuxcon events (cloud open, KVM forum, Xen summit, Kernel summit et= c). >> So I am sure you can justify going for 3 days, attend the other LF event= s and >> attend the CloudStack day. I do think there is better alignment with LF = events >> than with other ASF projects. Sadly the Apachecon itself is not a large >> conference, and I don't think we got the cross-pollination we were hopin= g. LF >> events are much bigger (Dusseldorf in the fall was 1,500 people). >> >>> >> >>> The risk I do see with 1 day event is that we get fragmented and >> >>> that >> we don't see each other that often. >> >>> >> >>> To conclude, it is key that everyone on our lists feels entitled to >> >>> do >> things and take the lead. In some sense there is no such thing as us vs. >> "the organizers". We are all the organizers of these conferences. It is = a matter >> of >> who has the time and the will to step up and lead these events >> (1 or 3 days ) and who will attend. >> >>> >> >>> -If you have the time, can you take the lead and organize another 1 >> day event closer to home ? >> >>> -If you have time, can you take the lead on one of those scheduled >> events and take on the program planning ? >> >>> -If you have funds, can you sponsor the event ? >> >>> -if you have space, can you donate it for an event ? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -sebastien >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> On Mar 5, 2015, at 2:01 AM, Erik Weber wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 3:45 AM, ilya musayev >> wrote: >> >>>> Am i right in assuming that we no longer going to have 3 day long >> conferences and instead 5 separate cloudstack day events? It does makes = sense >> as it helps with awareness, but.. >> >>>> >> >>>> Looking at it from my employers side, as well as my personally - >> >>>> its >> a bit hard to justify a trip for just one day :( On average, a person wo= uld have >> to >> travel a night before and leave a day later to make the most of it. That= is 2 >> days >> spent in transit to attend 1 day event. >> >>>> >> >>>> Lets see how this works out, but i really think we need at least 1 >> event that is longer than a day - so we can have a community get togethe= r that >> many would be able to attend. >> >>>> >> >>>> I must agree. >> >>>> >> >>>> Unless you live near one of the airline hubs you'll most likely >> >>>> have >> to travel three days anyway. >> >>>> In my case I have to travel the night before to get there before >> >>>> 1PM, >> and as anyone would want to attend the night events (that's usually wher= e I >> personally get most out of the conference) I have stay a night longer. >> >>>> >> >>>> Justifying a three day trip to attend a one day event is >> significantly harder than justifying a four day (we usually arrive a bit= later >> on the >> first day) trip to attend a three day event. >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Erik >> > > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range of CloudStack related service= s >=20 > IaaS Cloud Design & Build > CSForge =E2=80=93 rapid IaaS deployment framework > CloudStack Consulting > CloudStack Software > Engineering > CloudStack Infrastructure > Support > CloudStack Bootcamp Training Courses >=20 > This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended= solely > for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. 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