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From Giles Sirett <>
Subject RE: CloudStack Conferences
Date Fri, 06 Mar 2015 17:11:36 GMT

The problem here IS is that we're trying to tick two, quite different, boxes:
1. increase project awareness by doing MORE, smaller events for people to find out about ACS.
For me the 5 x1 day format works very well for that
2. provide an opportunity for the existing community to meet & share

The 5 x events *should* achieve the first, but I think they may be counter-intuitive to the
However, as Arjan et al explain this all takes time & money and the situation is we haven’t
got enough of either to achieve both of these objectives

I think you have summarised really well here and suggested a very pragmatic way forward.

I really do have to agree that I don’t think Budpaest & Dublin can both fly, being so
close to each other. We should focus our efforts on one or the other.
For me, that would have to be Dublin: there is enough ACS people within an hours flight, and
I think cloudopen is likely to be a better attended event than apachecon
Of course, I would love to see both being successful (especially since I just paid to sponsor
them all :-) )  - but I don’t think we've got enough cycles between us to get 2 x agendas
organised - if somebody thinks different and is prepared to take on a 2nd agenda within a
week , please shout

Hopefully there will be enough critical mass for Austin & Seattle. I don’t think Tokyo
will be a problem at all

Although I am always fearful of trying to do DIY conferences - I think, if we can find the
space to bolt on a community day (or two) around the Dublin event, we could probably overcome
the objections that many people have of not wanting to travel for only a 1 day event.

We can get the EU user group people involved (looking back at people like you Adrian :-) )
 and combine our autumn meeting and I'm SURE we can find some meeting space in Dblin for a
couple of days

Thinking about it: there is also  another way of looking at this.
The cloudstack day in Dublin is co-located with linux cloud open. These a really good events
(I've been to the last two)  - they have a big attendance  and they are, well, focussed on
"open cloud" - that’s us !
At last years, there were 4 (I think) ACS talks at cloudopen.
Theres nothing to stop us, as a community, submitting talks to that conference and using it
as somewhere to "congregate".
If we ask very very very nicely - we could maybe find out if theres a spare room during that
event we could use for a hackathon stlye thing  for Cloudstack

Either way: I think we could, as a community, decide to be at one of these en mass

Kind Regards

D: +44 20 3603 0541 | M: +44 796 111 2055

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adrian Lewis []
> Sent: 06 March 2015 16:02
> To:
> Subject: RE: CloudStack Conferences
> My opinion (not sure how much it counts but anyway) is that there are a
> number of problems here that could be solved with relative ease. Looking in
> particular at Dublin/Budapest, I'd say that these are very good candidates for
> merging. The issues I see with having these as separate events are:
> 1. Being a relatively small community still, we should aim to get together
> physically as much as possible. Mailing lists are great but it's getting people
> together that seems to make stuff happen. Communities don't work well if
> they're split up. Clearly, a single global conference causes other issues but
> fragmenting unnecessarily seems counter-productive to me.
> 2. As already mentioned, most visitors will need to fly and the difference
> between the cost of a flight to Budapest vs a cost of a flight to Dublin for most
> candidates for either event will not be all that significant when all costs for
> attending are added up.
> 3. We may not have big sponsors, pots of cash to spare, or unlimited
> organisational resources so combining the two venues would surely help
> immensely in that regard. Economies of scale come into it as sponsors are more
> likely to want to chip in if there's greater attendance at a single event than two
> smaller ones.
> 4. People are less likely to bother even registering (or getting expenses
> approved) if, as many have already mentioned, the event is just a single day and
> justifying the efforts/costs then becomes a real issue. I understand that
> previously colocated events with ApacheCon haven't actually resulted in many
> people going to both. Ilya has mentioned this as well.
> In addition to combining the two events, I think that it should be relatively easy
> to have a single 'official' day that is well funded and organised but have one (or
> even two) day events before or after the main event that can be informally
> organised by the community. Call them hackathons if you will but not
> necessarily dedicated to writing code - perhaps conduct panel discussions
> around marketing, direction of the project, different use-cases (or markets), and
> some coding as well. If ShapeBlue were interested in doing some 'sample
> chapters' of their training courses as well I'm sure that would go down well for
> those new to ACS (perhaps the day before the main event). These additional
> days could be done without any AV, catering, presents, sponsored evening
> events etc.
> I'm quite sure most people wouldn't complain about buying their own
> drinks/food.
> As for a venue however, this is the hole in my argument. Is it safe to say that
> there are enough ACS types in Dublin that something could be organised?
> Would Paddy Power be able to supply meeting rooms for example?
> Is there an academic community in Dublin that might be happy to assist with
> these sorts of informal events? Even a hotel with a bar/restaurant might be
> willing if we agreed to a minimum spend on food/drink and that we'd put it as
> the top listed suggestion for where to stay when attending.
> They might even give us a discount on rooms.
> Obviously if it appears that we do have resources to improve these additional
> informal days then great but in terms of commitment, we could set a much
> lower requirement vs trying to run a full two or three-day event. Doesn't mean
> that the event can't autoscale with demand!
> How does that resound with everyone?
> Adrian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arjan []
> Sent: 06 March 2015 05:32
> To:
> Subject: Re: CloudStack Conferences
> Price is mostly venue, catering, audio video, evening events. (Gifts)
> Time is number of tracks, speakers, sponsors, look and feel.
> So you can fiddle around with combinations. Two day low profile single track
> could be easier than 1 day the whole shebang with party and speaker dinner etc
> Rgds,
> Arjan
> > On 5 mrt. 2015, at 23:56, ilya musayev <>
> wrote:
> >
> > Arjan and Sebastian
> >
> > Thanks for sharing your experiences in setting up the conferences,
> >
> > Just curious would 2 day events be more justifiable, easier to
> > organize
> and also less expensive?
> >
> > Thanks
> > ilya
> >
> >> On 3/5/15 2:39 PM, Arjan wrote:
> >> Thanks Seb,
> >>
> >> I agree. We wanted to organize ccceu14 again, but the effort on
> organizing another 3 day event was too big. Next to that for Amsterdam we
> have put in serious money together with Citrix.
> >>
> >> So 3 day events work, but you need time and / or funds.
> >>
> >> A one day event is much easier. Single track. Smaller location etc etc.
> >>
> >> I am in favor of the hybrid approach though, but most likely the 1
> >> day
> events will happen more. Maybe it is even an option to do the devops days
> approach. Every city can organize one as a sort of franchise model.
> >>
> >> Arjan
> >>
> >>> On 5 mrt. 2015, at 10:00, Sebastien Goasguen <>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Morning folks,
> >>>
> >>> This is a good point, however like Chip mentioned we would need
> sponsors.
> >>>
> >>> Organizing a 3 day event is a big task, you need to find a location
> that suits people, you need to pay for that location, you need a program, you
> need attendance, you need sponsors etc.
> >>>
> >>> For Amsterdam, Schuberg took the lead role. Citrix was the main
> financial backer with Schuberg. I believe it basically took ~3 people full time
> from Schuberg for several months to organize things the way it was, plus a lot of
> time and energy from other folks to get sponsors, drive attendance etc. The
> event cost ~200k euros and was in the black at the end (no secret there).
> >>>
> >>> For Denver and Budapest we aligned with the ASF and leveraged the
> Linux Foundation to do the logistics and help get sponsors. It worked out but it is
> still a lot of effort to get the program together, help LF reach out to sponsors etc.
> As a side note, even though these were 3 day events, lots of folks arrive on
> tutorial day, spend the keynote day and leave at night or in the morning. That's
> why I pushed for a poster session at the end of Budapest, because typically folks
> leave before and we end up with semi empty sessions in the last afternoon.
> >>>
> >>> The bottom line is that it is a question of cost, attendance, who
> takes the lead in planning and what does the event look like. We could organize
> three day events much cheaply. Something that comes to mind is configuration
> management camp in Ghent. It drives 400 people, is hosted at the university.
> There is almost no sponsors/booth, no signage, no video recording, very little
> lunch etc. But if we want something like Denver or Budapest, we are looking at 6
> figures plus the human investment.
> >>>
> >>> CloudStack is a brand owned by this community, so anyone here is
> >>> free
> and should feel entitled to organize its own CloudStack Day close to home.
> Norway, India etc. It could be a 30 people event or it could grow into its own
> 300/500 people event. The Japanese community for example organizes
> CloudStack Japan on their own and drives 500 people.
> >>>
> >>> Now all these 1 day events are co-located (before, after or during)
> the linuxcon events (cloud open, KVM forum, Xen summit, Kernel summit etc).
> So I am sure you can justify going for 3 days, attend the other LF events and
> attend the CloudStack day. I do think there is better alignment with LF events
> than with other ASF projects. Sadly the Apachecon itself is not a large
> conference, and I don't think we got the cross-pollination we were hoping. LF
> events are much bigger (Dusseldorf in the fall was 1,500 people).
> >>>
> >>> The risk I do see with 1 day event is that we get fragmented and
> >>> that
> we don't see each other that often.
> >>>
> >>> To conclude, it is key that everyone on our lists feels entitled to
> >>> do
> things and take the lead. In some sense there is no such thing as us vs.
> "the organizers". We are all the organizers of these conferences. It is a matter of
> who has the time and the will to step up and lead these events
> (1 or 3 days ) and who will attend.
> >>>
> >>> -If you have the time, can you take the lead and organize another 1
> day event closer to home ?
> >>> -If you have time, can you take the lead on one of those scheduled
> events and take on the program planning ?
> >>> -If you have funds, can you sponsor the event ?
> >>> -if you have space, can you donate it for an event ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -sebastien
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Mar 5, 2015, at 2:01 AM, Erik Weber <> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 3:45 AM, ilya musayev
> <> wrote:
> >>>> Am i right in assuming that we no longer going to have 3 day long
> conferences and instead 5 separate cloudstack day events? It does makes sense
> as it helps with awareness, but..
> >>>>
> >>>> Looking at it from my employers side, as well as my personally -
> >>>> its
> a bit hard to justify a trip for just one day :( On average, a person would have to
> travel a night before and leave a day later to make the most of it. That is 2 days
> spent in transit to attend 1 day event.
> >>>>
> >>>> Lets see how this works out, but i really think we need at least 1
> event that is longer than a day - so we can have a community get together that
> many would be able to attend.
> >>>>
> >>>> I must agree.
> >>>>
> >>>> Unless you live near one of the airline hubs you'll most likely
> >>>> have
> to travel three days anyway.
> >>>> In my case I have to travel the night before to get there before
> >>>> 1PM,
> and as anyone would want to attend the night events (that's usually where I
> personally get most out of the conference) I have stay a night longer.
> >>>>
> >>>> Justifying a three day trip to attend a one day event is
> significantly harder than justifying a four day (we usually arrive a bit later on the
> first day) trip to attend a three day event.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Erik
> >
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