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From Adrian Lewis <>
Subject RE: CloudStack Conferences
Date Fri, 06 Mar 2015 16:01:50 GMT
My opinion (not sure how much it counts but anyway) is that there are a
number of problems here that could be solved with relative ease. Looking
in particular at Dublin/Budapest, I'd say that these are very good
candidates for merging. The issues I see with having these as separate
events are:

1. Being a relatively small community still, we should aim to get together
physically as much as possible. Mailing lists are great but it's getting
people together that seems to make stuff happen. Communities don't work
well if they're split up. Clearly, a single global conference causes other
issues but fragmenting unnecessarily seems counter-productive to me.

2. As already mentioned, most visitors will need to fly and the difference
between the cost of a flight to Budapest vs a cost of a flight to Dublin
for most candidates for either event will not be all that significant when
all costs for attending are added up.

3. We may not have big sponsors, pots of cash to spare, or unlimited
organisational resources so combining the two venues would surely help
immensely in that regard. Economies of scale come into it as sponsors are
more likely to want to chip in if there's greater attendance at a single
event than two smaller ones.

4. People are less likely to bother even registering (or getting expenses
approved) if, as many have already mentioned, the event is just a single
day and justifying the efforts/costs then becomes a real issue. I
understand that previously colocated events with ApacheCon haven't
actually resulted in many people going to both. Ilya has mentioned this as

In addition to combining the two events, I think that it should be
relatively easy to have a single 'official' day that is well funded and
organised but have one (or even two) day events before or after the main
event that can be informally organised by the community. Call them
hackathons if you will but not necessarily dedicated to writing code -
perhaps conduct panel discussions around marketing, direction of the
project, different use-cases (or markets), and some coding as well. If
ShapeBlue were interested in doing some 'sample chapters' of their
training courses as well I'm sure that would go down well for those new to
ACS (perhaps the day before the main event). These additional days could
be done without any AV, catering, presents, sponsored evening events etc.
I'm quite sure most people wouldn't complain about buying their own

As for a venue however, this is the hole in my argument. Is it safe to say
that there are enough ACS types in Dublin that something could be
organised? Would Paddy Power be able to supply meeting rooms for example?
Is there an academic community in Dublin that might be happy to assist
with these sorts of informal events? Even a hotel with a bar/restaurant
might be willing if we agreed to a minimum spend on food/drink and that
we'd put it as the top listed suggestion for where to stay when attending.
They might even give us a discount on rooms.

Obviously if it appears that we do have resources to improve these
additional informal days then great but in terms of commitment, we could
set a much lower requirement vs trying to run a full two or three-day
event. Doesn't mean that the event can't autoscale with demand!

How does that resound with everyone?


-----Original Message-----
From: Arjan []
Sent: 06 March 2015 05:32
Subject: Re: CloudStack Conferences

Price is mostly venue, catering, audio video, evening events. (Gifts)

Time is number of tracks, speakers, sponsors, look and feel.

So you can fiddle around with combinations. Two day low profile single
track could be easier than 1 day the whole shebang with party and speaker
dinner etc



> On 5 mrt. 2015, at 23:56, ilya musayev <>
> Arjan and Sebastian
> Thanks for sharing your experiences in setting up the conferences,
> Just curious would 2 day events be more justifiable, easier to organize
and also less expensive?
> Thanks
> ilya
>> On 3/5/15 2:39 PM, Arjan wrote:
>> Thanks Seb,
>> I agree. We wanted to organize ccceu14 again, but the effort on
organizing another 3 day event was too big. Next to that for Amsterdam we
have put in serious money together with Citrix.
>> So 3 day events work, but you need time and / or funds.
>> A one day event is much easier. Single track. Smaller location etc etc.
>> I am in favor of the hybrid approach though, but most likely the 1 day
events will happen more. Maybe it is even an option to do the devops days
approach. Every city can organize one as a sort of franchise model.
>> Arjan
>>> On 5 mrt. 2015, at 10:00, Sebastien Goasguen <> wrote:
>>> Morning folks,
>>> This is a good point, however like Chip mentioned we would need
>>> Organizing a 3 day event is a big task, you need to find a location
that suits people, you need to pay for that location, you need a program,
you need attendance, you need sponsors etc.
>>> For Amsterdam, Schuberg took the lead role. Citrix was the main
financial backer with Schuberg. I believe it basically took ~3 people full
time from Schuberg for several months to organize things the way it was,
plus a lot of time and energy from other folks to get sponsors, drive
attendance etc. The event cost ~200k euros and was in the black at the end
(no secret there).
>>> For Denver and Budapest we aligned with the ASF and leveraged the
Linux Foundation to do the logistics and help get sponsors. It worked out
but it is still a lot of effort to get the program together, help LF reach
out to sponsors etc. As a side note, even though these were 3 day events,
lots of folks arrive on tutorial day, spend the keynote day and leave at
night or in the morning. That's why I pushed for a poster session at the
end of Budapest, because typically folks leave before and we end up with
semi empty sessions in the last afternoon.
>>> The bottom line is that it is a question of cost, attendance, who
takes the lead in planning and what does the event look like. We could
organize three day events much cheaply. Something that comes to mind is
configuration management camp in Ghent. It drives 400 people, is hosted at
the university. There is almost no sponsors/booth, no signage, no video
recording, very little lunch etc. But if we want something like Denver or
Budapest, we are looking at 6 figures plus the human investment.
>>> CloudStack is a brand owned by this community, so anyone here is free
and should feel entitled to organize its own CloudStack Day close to home.
Norway, India etc. It could be a 30 people event or it could grow into its
own 300/500 people event. The Japanese community for example organizes
CloudStack Japan on their own and drives 500 people.
>>> Now all these 1 day events are co-located (before, after or during)
the linuxcon events (cloud open, KVM forum, Xen summit, Kernel summit
etc). So I am sure you can justify going for 3 days, attend the other LF
events and attend the CloudStack day. I do think there is better alignment
with LF events than with other ASF projects. Sadly the Apachecon itself is
not a large conference, and I don't think we got the cross-pollination we
were hoping. LF events are much bigger (Dusseldorf in the fall was 1,500
>>> The risk I do see with 1 day event is that we get fragmented and that
we don't see each other that often.
>>> To conclude, it is key that everyone on our lists feels entitled to do
things and take the lead. In some sense there is no such thing as us vs.
"the organizers". We are all the organizers of these conferences. It is a
matter of who has the time and the will to step up and lead these events
(1 or 3 days ) and who will attend.
>>> -If you have the time, can you take the lead and organize another 1
day event closer to home ?
>>> -If you have time, can you take the lead on one of those scheduled
events and take on the program planning ?
>>> -If you have funds, can you sponsor the event ?
>>> -if you have space, can you donate it for an event ?
>>> -sebastien
>>>> On Mar 5, 2015, at 2:01 AM, Erik Weber <> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 3:45 AM, ilya musayev
<> wrote:
>>>> Am i right in assuming that we no longer going to have 3 day long
conferences and instead 5 separate cloudstack day events? It does makes
sense as it helps with awareness, but..
>>>> Looking at it from my employers side, as well as my personally - its
a bit hard to justify a trip for just one day :( On average, a person
would have to travel a night before and leave a day later to make the most
of it. That is 2 days spent in transit to attend 1 day event.
>>>> Lets see how this works out, but i really think we need at least 1
event that is longer than a day - so we can have a community get together
that many would be able to attend.
>>>> I must agree.
>>>> Unless you live near one of the airline hubs you'll most likely have
to travel three days anyway.
>>>> In my case I have to travel the night before to get there before 1PM,
and as anyone would want to attend the night events (that's usually where
I personally get most out of the conference) I have stay a night longer.
>>>> Justifying a three day trip to attend a one day event is
significantly harder than justifying a four day (we usually arrive a bit
later on the first day) trip to attend a three day event.
>>>> --
>>>> Erik

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