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From Adrian Lewis <>
Subject RE: CloudStack Conferences
Date Fri, 06 Mar 2015 16:30:10 GMT

-----Original Message-----
From: Sebastien Goasguen []
Sent: 06 March 2015 16:17
Subject: Re: CloudStack Conferences

On Mar 6, 2015, at 11:01 AM, Adrian Lewis <>

> My opinion (not sure how much it counts but anyway)

It counts as much as anyone else Adrian,

> is that there are a
> number of problems here that could be solved with relative ease.
> Looking in particular at Dublin/Budapest, I'd say that these are very
> good candidates for merging. The issues I see with having these as
> separate events are:

So cutting to the chase, after having had several discussions wit folks on
and off the list, I am talking directly with Linux Foundation to see if we
can cancel the Budapest event and focus on the Dublin event. The two were
7 days apart and honestly probably impractical to do.

We could indeed, either add a day in Dublin as part of the regular event
or talk to someone like Paddy Power to have a second day off-site.

So your comments are spot on, and it looks like we are in agreement.

Let me get back to you when I cleared things up with LF and that we can
start on planning. We will need volunteers.


> 1. Being a relatively small community still, we should aim to get
> together physically as much as possible. Mailing lists are great but
> it's getting people together that seems to make stuff happen.
> Communities don't work well if they're split up. Clearly, a single
> global conference causes other issues but fragmenting unnecessarily
seems counter-productive to me.
> 2. As already mentioned, most visitors will need to fly and the
> difference between the cost of a flight to Budapest vs a cost of a
> flight to Dublin for most candidates for either event will not be all
> that significant when all costs for attending are added up.
> 3. We may not have big sponsors, pots of cash to spare, or unlimited
> organisational resources so combining the two venues would surely help
> immensely in that regard. Economies of scale come into it as sponsors
> are more likely to want to chip in if there's greater attendance at a
> single event than two smaller ones.
> 4. People are less likely to bother even registering (or getting
> expenses
> approved) if, as many have already mentioned, the event is just a
> single day and justifying the efforts/costs then becomes a real issue.
> I understand that previously colocated events with ApacheCon haven't
> actually resulted in many people going to both. Ilya has mentioned
> this as well.
> In addition to combining the two events, I think that it should be
> relatively easy to have a single 'official' day that is well funded
> and organised but have one (or even two) day events before or after
> the main event that can be informally organised by the community. Call
> them hackathons if you will but not necessarily dedicated to writing
> code - perhaps conduct panel discussions around marketing, direction
> of the project, different use-cases (or markets), and some coding as
> well. If ShapeBlue were interested in doing some 'sample chapters' of
> their training courses as well I'm sure that would go down well for
> those new to ACS (perhaps the day before the main event). These
> additional days could be done without any AV, catering, presents,
sponsored evening events etc.
> I'm quite sure most people wouldn't complain about buying their own
> drinks/food.
> As for a venue however, this is the hole in my argument. Is it safe to
> say that there are enough ACS types in Dublin that something could be
> organised? Would Paddy Power be able to supply meeting rooms for
> Is there an academic community in Dublin that might be happy to assist
> with these sorts of informal events? Even a hotel with a
> bar/restaurant might be willing if we agreed to a minimum spend on
> food/drink and that we'd put it as the top listed suggestion for where
to stay when attending.
> They might even give us a discount on rooms.
> Obviously if it appears that we do have resources to improve these
> additional informal days then great but in terms of commitment, we
> could set a much lower requirement vs trying to run a full two or
> three-day event. Doesn't mean that the event can't autoscale with
> How does that resound with everyone?
> Adrian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arjan []
> Sent: 06 March 2015 05:32
> To:
> Subject: Re: CloudStack Conferences
> Price is mostly venue, catering, audio video, evening events. (Gifts)
> Time is number of tracks, speakers, sponsors, look and feel.
> So you can fiddle around with combinations. Two day low profile single
> track could be easier than 1 day the whole shebang with party and
> speaker dinner etc
> Rgds,
> Arjan
>> On 5 mrt. 2015, at 23:56, ilya musayev <>
> wrote:
>> Arjan and Sebastian
>> Thanks for sharing your experiences in setting up the conferences,
>> Just curious would 2 day events be more justifiable, easier to
>> organize
> and also less expensive?
>> Thanks
>> ilya
>>> On 3/5/15 2:39 PM, Arjan wrote:
>>> Thanks Seb,
>>> I agree. We wanted to organize ccceu14 again, but the effort on
> organizing another 3 day event was too big. Next to that for Amsterdam
> we have put in serious money together with Citrix.
>>> So 3 day events work, but you need time and / or funds.
>>> A one day event is much easier. Single track. Smaller location etc
>>> I am in favor of the hybrid approach though, but most likely the 1
>>> day
> events will happen more. Maybe it is even an option to do the devops
> days approach. Every city can organize one as a sort of franchise model.
>>> Arjan
>>>> On 5 mrt. 2015, at 10:00, Sebastien Goasguen <>
>>>> Morning folks,
>>>> This is a good point, however like Chip mentioned we would need
> sponsors.
>>>> Organizing a 3 day event is a big task, you need to find a location
> that suits people, you need to pay for that location, you need a
> program, you need attendance, you need sponsors etc.
>>>> For Amsterdam, Schuberg took the lead role. Citrix was the main
> financial backer with Schuberg. I believe it basically took ~3 people
> full time from Schuberg for several months to organize things the way
> it was, plus a lot of time and energy from other folks to get
> sponsors, drive attendance etc. The event cost ~200k euros and was in
> the black at the end (no secret there).
>>>> For Denver and Budapest we aligned with the ASF and leveraged the
> Linux Foundation to do the logistics and help get sponsors. It worked
> out but it is still a lot of effort to get the program together, help
> LF reach out to sponsors etc. As a side note, even though these were 3
> day events, lots of folks arrive on tutorial day, spend the keynote
> day and leave at night or in the morning. That's why I pushed for a
> poster session at the end of Budapest, because typically folks leave
> before and we end up with semi empty sessions in the last afternoon.
>>>> The bottom line is that it is a question of cost, attendance, who
> takes the lead in planning and what does the event look like. We could
> organize three day events much cheaply. Something that comes to mind
> is configuration management camp in Ghent. It drives 400 people, is
> hosted at the university. There is almost no sponsors/booth, no
> signage, no video recording, very little lunch etc. But if we want
> something like Denver or Budapest, we are looking at 6 figures plus the
human investment.
>>>> CloudStack is a brand owned by this community, so anyone here is
>>>> free
> and should feel entitled to organize its own CloudStack Day close to
> Norway, India etc. It could be a 30 people event or it could grow into
> its own 300/500 people event. The Japanese community for example
> organizes CloudStack Japan on their own and drives 500 people.
>>>> Now all these 1 day events are co-located (before, after or during)
> the linuxcon events (cloud open, KVM forum, Xen summit, Kernel summit
> etc). So I am sure you can justify going for 3 days, attend the other
> LF events and attend the CloudStack day. I do think there is better
> alignment with LF events than with other ASF projects. Sadly the
> Apachecon itself is not a large conference, and I don't think we got
> the cross-pollination we were hoping. LF events are much bigger
> (Dusseldorf in the fall was 1,500 people).
>>>> The risk I do see with 1 day event is that we get fragmented and
>>>> that
> we don't see each other that often.
>>>> To conclude, it is key that everyone on our lists feels entitled to
>>>> do
> things and take the lead. In some sense there is no such thing as us vs.
> "the organizers". We are all the organizers of these conferences. It
> is a matter of who has the time and the will to step up and lead these
> events
> (1 or 3 days ) and who will attend.
>>>> -If you have the time, can you take the lead and organize another 1
> day event closer to home ?
>>>> -If you have time, can you take the lead on one of those scheduled
> events and take on the program planning ?
>>>> -If you have funds, can you sponsor the event ?
>>>> -if you have space, can you donate it for an event ?
>>>> -sebastien
>>>>> On Mar 5, 2015, at 2:01 AM, Erik Weber <> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 3:45 AM, ilya musayev
> <> wrote:
>>>>> Am i right in assuming that we no longer going to have 3 day long
> conferences and instead 5 separate cloudstack day events? It does
> makes sense as it helps with awareness, but..
>>>>> Looking at it from my employers side, as well as my personally -
>>>>> its
> a bit hard to justify a trip for just one day :( On average, a person
> would have to travel a night before and leave a day later to make the
> most of it. That is 2 days spent in transit to attend 1 day event.
>>>>> Lets see how this works out, but i really think we need at least 1
> event that is longer than a day - so we can have a community get
> together that many would be able to attend.
>>>>> I must agree.
>>>>> Unless you live near one of the airline hubs you'll most likely
>>>>> have
> to travel three days anyway.
>>>>> In my case I have to travel the night before to get there before
>>>>> 1PM,
> and as anyone would want to attend the night events (that's usually
> where I personally get most out of the conference) I have stay a night
>>>>> Justifying a three day trip to attend a one day event is
> significantly harder than justifying a four day (we usually arrive a
> bit later on the first day) trip to attend a three day event.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Erik

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