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From Nux! <>
Subject Re: CloudStack Conferences
Date Fri, 06 Mar 2015 18:03:44 GMT
+1 for Dublin-only

I would have preferred London or Paris (easy to reach, bigger audiences) to be honest, but
I understand there is a context here.

Good points, Adrian.


Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!


----- Original Message -----
> From: "Giles Sirett" <>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 6 March, 2015 17:11:36
> Subject: RE: CloudStack Conferences

> Adrian
> The problem here IS is that we're trying to tick two, quite different, boxes:
> 1. increase project awareness by doing MORE, smaller events for people to find
> out about ACS. For me the 5 x1 day format works very well for that
> 2. provide an opportunity for the existing community to meet & share
> The 5 x events *should* achieve the first, but I think they may be
> counter-intuitive to the 2nd.
> However, as Arjan et al explain this all takes time & money and the situation is
> we haven’t got enough of either to achieve both of these objectives
> I think you have summarised really well here and suggested a very pragmatic way
> forward.
> I really do have to agree that I don’t think Budpaest & Dublin can both fly,
> being so close to each other. We should focus our efforts on one or the other.
> For me, that would have to be Dublin: there is enough ACS people within an hours
> flight, and I think cloudopen is likely to be a better attended event than
> apachecon
> Of course, I would love to see both being successful (especially since I just
> paid to sponsor them all :-) )  - but I don’t think we've got enough cycles
> between us to get 2 x agendas organised - if somebody thinks different and is
> prepared to take on a 2nd agenda within a week , please shout
> Hopefully there will be enough critical mass for Austin & Seattle. I don’t think
> Tokyo will be a problem at all
> Although I am always fearful of trying to do DIY conferences - I think, if we
> can find the space to bolt on a community day (or two) around the Dublin event,
> we could probably overcome the objections that many people have of not wanting
> to travel for only a 1 day event.
> We can get the EU user group people involved (looking back at people like you
> Adrian :-) )  and combine our autumn meeting and I'm SURE we can find some
> meeting space in Dblin for a couple of days
> Thinking about it: there is also  another way of looking at this.
> The cloudstack day in Dublin is co-located with linux cloud open. These a really
> good events (I've been to the last two)  - they have a big attendance  and they
> are, well, focussed on "open cloud" - that’s us !
> At last years, there were 4 (I think) ACS talks at cloudopen.
> Theres nothing to stop us, as a community, submitting talks to that conference
> and using it as somewhere to "congregate".
> If we ask very very very nicely - we could maybe find out if theres a spare room
> during that event we could use for a hackathon stlye thing  for Cloudstack
> Either way: I think we could, as a community, decide to be at one of these en
> mass
> Kind Regards
> Giles
> D: +44 20 3603 0541 | M: +44 796 111 2055
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Adrian Lewis []
>> Sent: 06 March 2015 16:02
>> To:
>> Subject: RE: CloudStack Conferences
>> My opinion (not sure how much it counts but anyway) is that there are a
>> number of problems here that could be solved with relative ease. Looking in
>> particular at Dublin/Budapest, I'd say that these are very good candidates for
>> merging. The issues I see with having these as separate events are:
>> 1. Being a relatively small community still, we should aim to get together
>> physically as much as possible. Mailing lists are great but it's getting people
>> together that seems to make stuff happen. Communities don't work well if
>> they're split up. Clearly, a single global conference causes other issues but
>> fragmenting unnecessarily seems counter-productive to me.
>> 2. As already mentioned, most visitors will need to fly and the difference
>> between the cost of a flight to Budapest vs a cost of a flight to Dublin for
>> most
>> candidates for either event will not be all that significant when all costs for
>> attending are added up.
>> 3. We may not have big sponsors, pots of cash to spare, or unlimited
>> organisational resources so combining the two venues would surely help
>> immensely in that regard. Economies of scale come into it as sponsors are more
>> likely to want to chip in if there's greater attendance at a single event than
>> two
>> smaller ones.
>> 4. People are less likely to bother even registering (or getting expenses
>> approved) if, as many have already mentioned, the event is just a single day and
>> justifying the efforts/costs then becomes a real issue. I understand that
>> previously colocated events with ApacheCon haven't actually resulted in many
>> people going to both. Ilya has mentioned this as well.
>> In addition to combining the two events, I think that it should be relatively
>> easy
>> to have a single 'official' day that is well funded and organised but have one
>> (or
>> even two) day events before or after the main event that can be informally
>> organised by the community. Call them hackathons if you will but not
>> necessarily dedicated to writing code - perhaps conduct panel discussions
>> around marketing, direction of the project, different use-cases (or markets),
>> and
>> some coding as well. If ShapeBlue were interested in doing some 'sample
>> chapters' of their training courses as well I'm sure that would go down well for
>> those new to ACS (perhaps the day before the main event). These additional
>> days could be done without any AV, catering, presents, sponsored evening
>> events etc.
>> I'm quite sure most people wouldn't complain about buying their own
>> drinks/food.
>> As for a venue however, this is the hole in my argument. Is it safe to say that
>> there are enough ACS types in Dublin that something could be organised?
>> Would Paddy Power be able to supply meeting rooms for example?
>> Is there an academic community in Dublin that might be happy to assist with
>> these sorts of informal events? Even a hotel with a bar/restaurant might be
>> willing if we agreed to a minimum spend on food/drink and that we'd put it as
>> the top listed suggestion for where to stay when attending.
>> They might even give us a discount on rooms.
>> Obviously if it appears that we do have resources to improve these additional
>> informal days then great but in terms of commitment, we could set a much
>> lower requirement vs trying to run a full two or three-day event. Doesn't mean
>> that the event can't autoscale with demand!
>> How does that resound with everyone?
>> Adrian
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Arjan []
>> Sent: 06 March 2015 05:32
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: CloudStack Conferences
>> Price is mostly venue, catering, audio video, evening events. (Gifts)
>> Time is number of tracks, speakers, sponsors, look and feel.
>> So you can fiddle around with combinations. Two day low profile single track
>> could be easier than 1 day the whole shebang with party and speaker dinner etc
>> Rgds,
>> Arjan
>> > On 5 mrt. 2015, at 23:56, ilya musayev <>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Arjan and Sebastian
>> >
>> > Thanks for sharing your experiences in setting up the conferences,
>> >
>> > Just curious would 2 day events be more justifiable, easier to
>> > organize
>> and also less expensive?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > ilya
>> >
>> >> On 3/5/15 2:39 PM, Arjan wrote:
>> >> Thanks Seb,
>> >>
>> >> I agree. We wanted to organize ccceu14 again, but the effort on
>> organizing another 3 day event was too big. Next to that for Amsterdam we
>> have put in serious money together with Citrix.
>> >>
>> >> So 3 day events work, but you need time and / or funds.
>> >>
>> >> A one day event is much easier. Single track. Smaller location etc etc.
>> >>
>> >> I am in favor of the hybrid approach though, but most likely the 1
>> >> day
>> events will happen more. Maybe it is even an option to do the devops days
>> approach. Every city can organize one as a sort of franchise model.
>> >>
>> >> Arjan
>> >>
>> >>> On 5 mrt. 2015, at 10:00, Sebastien Goasguen <>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Morning folks,
>> >>>
>> >>> This is a good point, however like Chip mentioned we would need
>> sponsors.
>> >>>
>> >>> Organizing a 3 day event is a big task, you need to find a location
>> that suits people, you need to pay for that location, you need a program, you
>> need attendance, you need sponsors etc.
>> >>>
>> >>> For Amsterdam, Schuberg took the lead role. Citrix was the main
>> financial backer with Schuberg. I believe it basically took ~3 people full time
>> from Schuberg for several months to organize things the way it was, plus a lot
>> of
>> time and energy from other folks to get sponsors, drive attendance etc. The
>> event cost ~200k euros and was in the black at the end (no secret there).
>> >>>
>> >>> For Denver and Budapest we aligned with the ASF and leveraged the
>> Linux Foundation to do the logistics and help get sponsors. It worked out but it
>> is
>> still a lot of effort to get the program together, help LF reach out to sponsors
>> etc.
>> As a side note, even though these were 3 day events, lots of folks arrive on
>> tutorial day, spend the keynote day and leave at night or in the morning. That's
>> why I pushed for a poster session at the end of Budapest, because typically
>> folks
>> leave before and we end up with semi empty sessions in the last afternoon.
>> >>>
>> >>> The bottom line is that it is a question of cost, attendance, who
>> takes the lead in planning and what does the event look like. We could organize
>> three day events much cheaply. Something that comes to mind is configuration
>> management camp in Ghent. It drives 400 people, is hosted at the university.
>> There is almost no sponsors/booth, no signage, no video recording, very little
>> lunch etc. But if we want something like Denver or Budapest, we are looking at 6
>> figures plus the human investment.
>> >>>
>> >>> CloudStack is a brand owned by this community, so anyone here is
>> >>> free
>> and should feel entitled to organize its own CloudStack Day close to home.
>> Norway, India etc. It could be a 30 people event or it could grow into its own
>> 300/500 people event. The Japanese community for example organizes
>> CloudStack Japan on their own and drives 500 people.
>> >>>
>> >>> Now all these 1 day events are co-located (before, after or during)
>> the linuxcon events (cloud open, KVM forum, Xen summit, Kernel summit etc).
>> So I am sure you can justify going for 3 days, attend the other LF events and
>> attend the CloudStack day. I do think there is better alignment with LF events
>> than with other ASF projects. Sadly the Apachecon itself is not a large
>> conference, and I don't think we got the cross-pollination we were hoping. LF
>> events are much bigger (Dusseldorf in the fall was 1,500 people).
>> >>>
>> >>> The risk I do see with 1 day event is that we get fragmented and
>> >>> that
>> we don't see each other that often.
>> >>>
>> >>> To conclude, it is key that everyone on our lists feels entitled to
>> >>> do
>> things and take the lead. In some sense there is no such thing as us vs.
>> "the organizers". We are all the organizers of these conferences. It is a matter
>> of
>> who has the time and the will to step up and lead these events
>> (1 or 3 days ) and who will attend.
>> >>>
>> >>> -If you have the time, can you take the lead and organize another 1
>> day event closer to home ?
>> >>> -If you have time, can you take the lead on one of those scheduled
>> events and take on the program planning ?
>> >>> -If you have funds, can you sponsor the event ?
>> >>> -if you have space, can you donate it for an event ?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -sebastien
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Mar 5, 2015, at 2:01 AM, Erik Weber <>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 3:45 AM, ilya musayev
>> <> wrote:
>> >>>> Am i right in assuming that we no longer going to have 3 day long
>> conferences and instead 5 separate cloudstack day events? It does makes sense
>> as it helps with awareness, but..
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Looking at it from my employers side, as well as my personally -
>> >>>> its
>> a bit hard to justify a trip for just one day :( On average, a person would have
>> to
>> travel a night before and leave a day later to make the most of it. That is 2
>> days
>> spent in transit to attend 1 day event.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Lets see how this works out, but i really think we need at least
>> event that is longer than a day - so we can have a community get together that
>> many would be able to attend.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I must agree.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Unless you live near one of the airline hubs you'll most likely
>> >>>> have
>> to travel three days anyway.
>> >>>> In my case I have to travel the night before to get there before
>> >>>> 1PM,
>> and as anyone would want to attend the night events (that's usually where I
>> personally get most out of the conference) I have stay a night longer.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Justifying a three day trip to attend a one day event is
>> significantly harder than justifying a four day (we usually arrive a bit later
>> on the
>> first day) trip to attend a three day event.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Erik
>> >
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