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From Kelly Hair <kelly.h...@citrix.com>
Subject Re: [RESULTS][SUMMARY][DISCUSS][VOTE] List CloudStack related books on the website
Date Thu, 20 Jun 2013 12:53:50 GMT
I think that's a great idea.

There's different stakeholders with different goals.

@dev - development of the product
@users - configuration & usability
@marketing - promoting & increasing the mindshare of Apache CloudStack

Personally, I'm 3/4 interested in marketing, 1/5 interested in users &
1/20 in dev (think I have the ratios correct on that..)  The ratios may
move over time but I'm rarely going to look at the dev list.







On 6/20/13 8:14 AM, "Noah Slater" <nslater@apache.org> wrote:

>Sebastian,
>
>Thanks for the wrap up. I am happy with the way we proceeded here. It was
>a
>good compromise.
>
>As for the process stuff: Apache ‹ as a community ‹ uses
>discussion-lead consensus-based decision-making. (And formal voting is
>just
>one manifestation of that.) This should permeate everything we do. Every
>list, in other words.
>
>So the question isn't "where can votes happen?" (answer: everywhere Apache
>people exist!) but "where must certain types of decision be made?"
>
>I think we've established through past discussions around event
>organising,
>etc, that any sort of decision-making process in relation to marketing,
>the
>website, events, and branding, can, and probably should, happen on
>marketing@. There is no need to CC dev@.
>
>Any general, project-level stuff can be handled on dev@. In fact, "when in
>doubt, do it on dev@" is a decent rule of thumb.
>
>Perhaps we have not documented that marketing@ list is a suitable forum
>for
>certain types of decision making. It would probably be a good idea to do
>so. (But not doing so in the short term does not make existing decisions
>invalid. There is plenty of evidence in the mailing list archives to
>demonstrate the PMC is happy with this.)
>
>As for the by-laws. I agree. I will post a patch in a few minutes.
>
>
>
>On 17 June 2013 21:05, Rohit Yadav <bhaisaab@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Chip Childers
>> <chip.childers@sungard.com>wrote:
>>
>> > Adding Rohit via his a.o address.
>> >
>>
>> Thanks, yes please refrain from using my old/new corporate email
>>addresses.
>>
>> I'll stick to my initial vote and would propose listing the books on the
>> wiki immediately.
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>>
>>
>> >  On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 02:52:31PM -0400, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>> > > Ilya, Rohit, Joe, Noah,
>> > >
>> > > I am re-sending this with you in CC to make sure you read it.
>> > >
>> > > Since there was little response the wiki link has been established
>> > already, but I would like to get feedback on explicitly modifying the
>> > bylaws to explain that marketing topics happen on the marketing list
>>and
>> > that Lazy majority or Lazy 2/3 majority will be required.
>> > >
>> > > -sebastien
>> > >
>> > > On Jun 12, 2013, at 6:12 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <runseb@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi, (note only marketing@)
>> > > >
>> > > > Apologies for a belated wrap up of this important vote. Please
>>reply
>> > in-line.
>> > > >
>> > > > [RESULTS]:
>> > > >
>> > > > +1 : 24 (Sebastien, Giles, Nguyen, Ryan, Kelly, Geoff, Roland,
>>Alex,
>> > Nehal, Sapm4kev, Gaspare, Kelcey, José,OutbackDingo, Todd, Eric,
>>David,
>> > Kimihiko, Radhika, Clayton, Chip, Chiradeep, Tariq, Mark)
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > -0 : 2 (Noah, Joe also vote +0)
>> > > >
>> > > > -1: 2 (Rohit, Ilya)
>> > > >
>> > > > [SUMMARY]:
>> > > >
>> > > > Rohit would be +1 on listing in the wiki, Ilya would be +0 on
>>listing
>> > in the wiki.
>> > > > So it seems that we would have unanimous consensus for listing on
>>the
>> > wiki, even though there is a strong majority for the website.
>> > > >
>> > > > [DISCUSS]:
>> > > >
>> > > > I felt it was important to poll folks that are only on dev@ or
>> users@and the results show that some folks who have never voted, got
>> engaged in
>> > this VOTE. This is a very positive side effect despite the confusion
>> that I
>> > created by bcc all lists.
>> > > >
>> > > > Our bylaws [1] do not cover votes on non-technical matters, so
>>while
>> > we have lazy majority on this vote it seems that this situation is not
>> > covered by the bylaws. Moreover section 3.1.1 of bylaws says that
>> decisions
>> > on the project happen on dev@, so it seems that votes even on
>> marketing@are not allowed (unsure about this).
>> > > >
>> > > > I propose the following:
>> > > >
>> > > > 1-To move forward without having to re-cast a vote, I propose to
>>list
>> > immediately the books on the Wiki, and inform Packt. I just created
>>the
>> > page [2]
>> > > > 2- If people agree that we have a bylaw "loophole", we need to
>>modify
>> > the bylaws to allow votes on marketing@ and agree on using Lazy
>>majority
>> > or Lazy 2/3 majority.
>> > > >
>> > > > Once we agree, I will inform users@ and dev@ and invite folks who
>> > participated in this vote to join marketing@
>> > > >
>> > > > 3- We could then re-cast a vote to list on the website
>> > > >
>> > > > [1] http://cloudstack.apache.org/bylaws.html
>> > > > [2]
>> > 
>>https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/CloudStack+Books
>> > > >
>> > > > Ps: fwiw, I think this is overly complicated but the only way
>>forward
>> > in the apache way.
>> > > >
>> > > > -Sebastien
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>NS


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