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From Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [RESULTS][SUMMARY][DISCUSS][VOTE] List CloudStack related books on the website
Date Thu, 20 Jun 2013 12:14:49 GMT
Sebastian,

Thanks for the wrap up. I am happy with the way we proceeded here. It was a
good compromise.

As for the process stuff: Apache — as a community — uses
discussion-lead consensus-based decision-making. (And formal voting is just
one manifestation of that.) This should permeate everything we do. Every
list, in other words.

So the question isn't "where can votes happen?" (answer: everywhere Apache
people exist!) but "where must certain types of decision be made?"

I think we've established through past discussions around event organising,
etc, that any sort of decision-making process in relation to marketing, the
website, events, and branding, can, and probably should, happen on
marketing@. There is no need to CC dev@.

Any general, project-level stuff can be handled on dev@. In fact, "when in
doubt, do it on dev@" is a decent rule of thumb.

Perhaps we have not documented that marketing@ list is a suitable forum for
certain types of decision making. It would probably be a good idea to do
so. (But not doing so in the short term does not make existing decisions
invalid. There is plenty of evidence in the mailing list archives to
demonstrate the PMC is happy with this.)

As for the by-laws. I agree. I will post a patch in a few minutes.



On 17 June 2013 21:05, Rohit Yadav <bhaisaab@apache.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Chip Childers
> <chip.childers@sungard.com>wrote:
>
> > Adding Rohit via his a.o address.
> >
>
> Thanks, yes please refrain from using my old/new corporate email addresses.
>
> I'll stick to my initial vote and would propose listing the books on the
> wiki immediately.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> >  On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 02:52:31PM -0400, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
> > > Ilya, Rohit, Joe, Noah,
> > >
> > > I am re-sending this with you in CC to make sure you read it.
> > >
> > > Since there was little response the wiki link has been established
> > already, but I would like to get feedback on explicitly modifying the
> > bylaws to explain that marketing topics happen on the marketing list and
> > that Lazy majority or Lazy 2/3 majority will be required.
> > >
> > > -sebastien
> > >
> > > On Jun 12, 2013, at 6:12 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <runseb@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi, (note only marketing@)
> > > >
> > > > Apologies for a belated wrap up of this important vote. Please reply
> > in-line.
> > > >
> > > > [RESULTS]:
> > > >
> > > > +1 : 24 (Sebastien, Giles, Nguyen, Ryan, Kelly, Geoff, Roland, Alex,
> > Nehal, Sapm4kev, Gaspare, Kelcey, José,OutbackDingo, Todd, Eric, David,
> > Kimihiko, Radhika, Clayton, Chip, Chiradeep, Tariq, Mark)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -0 : 2 (Noah, Joe also vote +0)
> > > >
> > > > -1: 2 (Rohit, Ilya)
> > > >
> > > > [SUMMARY]:
> > > >
> > > > Rohit would be +1 on listing in the wiki, Ilya would be +0 on listing
> > in the wiki.
> > > > So it seems that we would have unanimous consensus for listing on the
> > wiki, even though there is a strong majority for the website.
> > > >
> > > > [DISCUSS]:
> > > >
> > > > I felt it was important to poll folks that are only on dev@ or
> users@and the results show that some folks who have never voted, got
> engaged in
> > this VOTE. This is a very positive side effect despite the confusion
> that I
> > created by bcc all lists.
> > > >
> > > > Our bylaws [1] do not cover votes on non-technical matters, so while
> > we have lazy majority on this vote it seems that this situation is not
> > covered by the bylaws. Moreover section 3.1.1 of bylaws says that
> decisions
> > on the project happen on dev@, so it seems that votes even on
> marketing@are not allowed (unsure about this).
> > > >
> > > > I propose the following:
> > > >
> > > > 1-To move forward without having to re-cast a vote, I propose to list
> > immediately the books on the Wiki, and inform Packt. I just created the
> > page [2]
> > > > 2- If people agree that we have a bylaw "loophole", we need to modify
> > the bylaws to allow votes on marketing@ and agree on using Lazy majority
> > or Lazy 2/3 majority.
> > > >
> > > > Once we agree, I will inform users@ and dev@ and invite folks who
> > participated in this vote to join marketing@
> > > >
> > > > 3- We could then re-cast a vote to list on the website
> > > >
> > > > [1] http://cloudstack.apache.org/bylaws.html
> > > > [2]
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/CloudStack+Books
> > > >
> > > > Ps: fwiw, I think this is overly complicated but the only way forward
> > in the apache way.
> > > >
> > > > -Sebastien
> > >
> > >
> >
>



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