cloudstack-marketing mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [VOTE] List CloudStack related books on the website
Date Tue, 28 May 2013 21:39:50 GMT
Rohit, I don't see anybody lobbying on this thread, or the previous
discussion. In fact, I think it's all been rather civil. :)

Also, sorry to hear the thread is making your blood boil. :/ Disagreement
is a natural part of the decision-making process. And as long as everyone
is civil (as I think is the case) then there should hopefully be no need
for heightened emotion.

Sebastian, I don't think it's fair to describe this discussion as a
hijacking. In fact, I think the discussion itself is evidence that we don't
have consensus and that the vote was called prematurely. (Something nobody
could know before it happened.)

My take on the thread so far is that:

 * A majority of people who have responded want to list the books
*somewhere*
 * 2/3 to 3/4 of the people who've responded want to do that on the website
 * The remaining people want to do it on the wiki

The 2/3 - 3/4 thing is a guestimate. I'd need to do a proper tally to get
the numbers. But it's clear to me that the people who want it on the wiki
are in the minority.

As it stands, I am not sure how it's possible to wrap up this vote, other
than to say it has failed. The strictest interpretation of our by-laws
would indicate that a single -1 here means the vote is dead in the water.
(Hence no point in continuing, unless you are able to lobby the people who
cast -1 to retract it, or soften it to a -0.)

However, I have to say, that would be a disappointing outcome. I would
prefer the list be on the wiki, but I would sooner have the list on the
website than not have any list at all!

One option might be that we draft a change to the by-laws to say that for
non-technical issues, we can use 3/4 or 2/3 majority consensus. You could
then re-hold the vote. (And this would cover us in future in case this
happens again, as it is quite likely to.)




On 28 May 2013 22:16, Sebastien Goasguen <runseb@gmail.com> wrote:

> Can we please not hijacked the [VOTE] thread with [DISCUSS] items.
>
> If people feel that there is a reason to DISCUSS more then we can cancel
> the vote, otherwise let's just keep voting.
> As it was said, we can always revisit later, but let's keep moving.
>
> I mentioned the vote would be open for 96 hours from Monday morning. I
> will tally votes friday morning.
>
> -Sebastien
>
>
> On May 28, 2013, at 4:12 PM, Kelcey Jamison Damage <kelcey@bbits.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, but I am a little confused... What are we doing that is
> fundamentally
> > wrong?
> >
> > None of us are trying to profit off this vote or what have you..., we
> simply want to grow the community in an inclusive way by including
> community works as optional resources. Whether the community work was
> created from donated or paid time, and whether the work is being sold or
> given away, does not make it any less vital to our community if at least in
> a measure of interest.
> >
> > The way I see it, is we can do everything ourselves(not possible), or we
> can engage and empower the community to do things themselves, and in return
> celebrate that interest and devotion.
> >
> > From what I'm learning, the more 'pure' we are, the less inviting and
> more exclusionary. I personally feel the success of this project is not
> just in the hands of the developers, but also in people doing cool things
> with our product, and us allowing a forum for these people to share and
> discuss their endeavors. Often people are inspired by seeing what their
> colleagues have done.
> >
> > Sorry for rant.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rohit Yadav" <bhaisaab@apache.org>
> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > Cc: marketing@cloudstack.apache.org
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:46:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: [VOTE] List CloudStack related books on the website
> >
> > Just my view: Lobbying is something we should avoid from what I
> understand
> > from the Apache culture. This is not to flame anybody or anything, I've
> > recognized may be the issue is in me; sorry but I've very strong
> sentiments
> > and emotions around opensource software development, I've decreased my
> > contributions, left my last job which was emotionally scaring me among
> > other things and threads like these just boils my blood, please just
> avoid
> > ugliness :)
> >
> > And the argument that we don't have to get this perfect right away, meh,
> > just does not apply; should we be doing something that is fundamentally
> > wrong? I know a lot of people like lobbying and practice it, maybe no one
> > is wrong.
> >
> > Just saying.
> > Peace.
> >
> > On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Agree with the "we don't have to get this perfect right away" approach.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 28 May 2013 18:17, Chiradeep Vittal <Chiradeep.Vittal@citrix.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> +1
> >>>
> >>> While I appreciate the don't-play-favorites sentiments, I do feel that
> we
> >>> are over thinking this issue. If favoritism becomes an issue, we can
> >>> revisit. At that point, I'd imagine that there would be half-a-dozen
> >> books
> >>> on CloudStack and listing/not listing them won't make much difference
> --
> >>> so we could remove ALL books. We're not there yet.
> >>>
> >>> At this point in time, it is appropriate to support such efforts.
> >>> --
> >>> Chiradeep
> >>>
> >>> On 5/27/13 1:27 AM, "Sebastien Goasguen" <runseb@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> After a relatively long discussion on the marketing@ list about the
> >>>> "Packt Book" [1] I would like to call a vote.
> >>>>
> >>>> Proposal:
> >>>> ----------------
> >>>> I propose to list CloudStack related books on our website [2]. The
> page
> >>>> listing these books would contain the following disclaimer:
> >>>>
> >>>> "This listing does not represent official endorsement by the Apache
> >>>> CloudStack project. The Apache CloudStack project does not recommend
> one
> >>>> book versus another nor does it guarantee the quality of the books."
> >>>>
> >>>> Inclusion of a book in the listing would be done via a vote on the
> >>>> marketing@ list.
> >>>> ----------------
> >>>>
> >>>> As a quick summary, alternatives to this proposal were to:
> >>>> 1-not do anything
> >>>> 2-list the books on the wiki
> >>>>
> >>>> A few of us have already expressed their opinions and discussed the
> >>>> possibilities. Check [1].
> >>>>
> >>>> Vote will be open for 96 hours (To accommodate Memorial day in the
> USA).
> >>>>
> >>>> Reply with:
> >>>>
> >>>> [ ] +1  approve
> >>>> [ ] +0  no opinion
> >>>> [ ] -1  disapprove (and reason why)
> >>>>
> >>>> PS: If edits of the disclaimer are needed but that they do not change
> >> the
> >>>> meaning of it, the disclaimer will be modified but the vote will not
> be
> >>>> restarted.
> >>>>
> >>>> [1] http://markmail.org/thread/r4qdmbonmx6yq2uv
> >>>> [2] http://cloudstack.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>> -Sebastien
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> NS
> >>
>
>


-- 
NS

Mime
  • Unnamed multipart/alternative (inline, None, 0 bytes)
View raw message