From dev-return-112417-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@cloudstack.apache.org Thu Jan 24 14:12:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 4278718062C for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 14:12:45 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 73847 invoked by uid 500); 24 Jan 2019 13:12:44 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@cloudstack.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@cloudstack.apache.org Received: (qmail 73811 invoked by uid 99); 24 Jan 2019 13:12:43 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd3-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 13:12:43 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd3-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd3-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id E3512180A6D for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 13:12:42 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd3-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.498 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.498 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=2, KAM_NUMSUBJECT=0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd3-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=bw-sw-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mx1-lw-us.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd3-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.10]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zo9Lo1xBpkte for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 13:12:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vk1-f171.google.com (mail-vk1-f171.google.com [209.85.221.171]) by mx1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 4C0F660FDE for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 13:12:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vk1-f171.google.com with SMTP id 185so1296959vkc.3 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 05:12:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bw-sw-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9NvTNHMTiPqzqf3p6GM8wy0e36WvHFbpiylX7hi2+b4=; b=lor0RDs0fGS2BsrqhmcTzC5/XNzdtXnNV0Cuz+uV5NpSLDGuyXKtICjIY7OmDFR8Xh EHwhem+gNRyqjvh4lYJzYARxTjFKKQMg8f1KBj/rfMAH0ROgaFkr1KzO0MRgSFQT8Dpc 0X9O9j3k+fT0uQpQiMdfd5C8kikqx5BJDMiOPZFoowFu8U8+799M84yBCsb/OiuUnPsx idzj/d4a3iOnI2BRcrkMxOh2Mkcntn+QeITVyEE/zF4ELF1NqTPBLHLT7VMmgPkBipQE 09mnXJ4aa+8QuRdDWuq/03KuaINWQdvLM99DTw9lhgmO9w4LMY2mLrp3/fietkt3uqjb X61Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9NvTNHMTiPqzqf3p6GM8wy0e36WvHFbpiylX7hi2+b4=; b=p/fwSioMNXh5z5LLpRYTj+Et405L4zGEf5UIoQ/dCGbR4Tj00Ya9Nmy5HUXflDIh80 yWlolHr/vYr//2evrCUsGuaT5lXiusThq/7W4xEOjO/6hL6z8nbdWp0NZq33LaETv6QT mwrZpMULuqPcciMg+b434c/Skml1dUOJZHHBmipizAN4T0bnlecckHecUsVnU/uSVS1R nHKsGe34dhTvpZ83u8R9gYoG3LVYpC0oClaOhSvZ1Vfxl9ZlFXJNO0RFofcQbrT4Weat Jz24VpIhdEDN1fCqCd94shzP3km1EKAnggzEUQMAQUkXhsq7oNv159buczjEFst8r3G2 X+hQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukfqQUjMjAuqsrhlOVRav2lqqX/mxaMOMJUrSW+kaTQp+zVlGpJQ xULYkAw0XbZ/c3R9awCCwDByhtTXuaPPeMb0B7Jbeg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6E3TJhmPocYpe2vtiTgI8sdWX336qAiBDn9/Tskd9GRK0I/m6c4QH6kBi5dnyEZHuLQT4dixI+K74/T1usNj8= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:16cb:: with SMTP id 194mr2523928vkw.76.1548335551489; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 05:12:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ivan Kudryavtsev Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:12:20 +0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Why CloudStack 5 To: users Cc: dev Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008a47e2058033f6fb" --0000000000008a47e2058033f6fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I'm glad the topic raised the discussion. That's great. My point is very carefully explained by Rohit. It's not a new idea - CloudStack community is small. Some features are abandoned and broken because of no developers behind them. I bet certain features still not tested in 4.11.2 because nobody uses them. When the feature owning vendor leaves the support it's no way just to remove the feature like Midonet as Rafael said. When I started the career, people used Perl5 and everyone was happy, but Larry Wall decided to go to Perl6... And who knows where the Perl now? People don't want something new because it's just renovated. Frankly, I don't believe that deep CloudStack redesign could be delivered by the community. But I believe CloudStack could evolve gradually, introducing new features and fixing bugs. I believe, that if there is no vendor for something it should be wiped out to keep the code sane and low fat. I don't think it's right to push plugins into the upstream codebase. I think that ACS community must keep eye on better features design and every version must include one properly designed and voted feature aside of small improvements and fixes. I believe that PRs must be moderated not only from the code sense but also from the point that code is reflected in design documents and documentation. I don't think CS5 (deep redesign) is even required by users. The code is pretty good, it works well. Just don't want to think it could end as Perl6. =D1=87=D1=82, 24 =D1=8F=D0=BD=D0=B2. 2019 =D0=B3. =D0=B2 11:43, Rohit Yadav= : > I'm in the favour of keeping the 4.x going because no API compatibility i= s > broken, and as long as we are following semver there is no need. Calling = a > 4.x a 5.x just for the sake of bumping versions may cause some perception > issue. > > Removal of unsupported/poc/incomplete features, plugins including APIs > should not constitute breaking of compatibility. Several network and > hypervisor plugins are still in poc/incomplete/unmaintained state. > > Unless the API layer, and perhaps DB layer is re-architected there is no > point in calling the next version 5.x as long as semver is followed. > > In my opinion, the next major version 5.0 should have a restful versioned > API layer, a new DB+upgrade framework that may support multiple db server= s, > a new UI, sandboxed plugin framework (right now a plugin can do anything = it > wants to say the cloud db), a new agent-clustering framework (the current > low level nio and rpc code goes away), a distributed message bus and > locking service (that we thought to introduce in 4.2,4.3 but incomplete), > and refactor the networking/VR layer with a new VR. Not to mention cleanu= p > some technical debt. The keywords being major architectural and > api/integrational changes. Some of this maybe on-going, but we'll get to > 5.x with patience over time. > > Regards, > Rohit Yadav > > ________________________________ > From: Ivan Kudryavtsev > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2019 9:15:29 AM > To: users; dev > Subject: Why CloudStack 5 > > I decided whether to write it several weeks thinking about the stones and > rotten potatoes, but still decided to do that. Hope it will not raise the > stress level. > > Colleagues and ACS leaders, I would like to initiate the discussion. Why = go > to CS5 rather than stay with 4.XX. Some thoughts are: > > 1. According to the versioning guide, the first number stands for radical > changes like if the community decided to go from current ORM to Hibernate= . > I don't see the capabilities for such changes and there are no intentions > for the implementation. > > 2. I can realize that we 'stuck' with '4.XX' and the marketing can be > disappointing from that point of view. Then, OK, let's just skip the firs= t > number "4." and release, ACS 13.X, 14.X, 15.X and so on. Every version wi= ll > receive new impressing version number and everyone could be happy about > that. > > Going to version "5" currently looks like as an intention to refresh but > with very poor motivation. At least to me. > > The discussion is strongly welcome. > > > > -- > With best regards, Ivan Kudryavtsev > Bitworks LLC > Cell RU: +7-923-414-1515 > Cell USA: +1-201-257-1512 > WWW: http://bitworks.software/ > > rohit.yadav@shapeblue.com > www.shapeblue.com > Amadeus House, Floral Street, London WC2E 9DPUK > @shapeblue > > > > --=20 With best regards, Ivan Kudryavtsev Bitworks LLC Cell RU: +7-923-414-1515 Cell USA: +1-201-257-1512 WWW: http://bitworks.software/ --0000000000008a47e2058033f6fb--