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From Wido den Hollander <w...@widodh.nl>
Subject Re: Eliminating Support for Ubuntu 12.04
Date Tue, 23 Aug 2016 10:14:18 GMT

> Op 23 augustus 2016 om 11:38 schreef Rohit Yadav <rohit.yadav@shapeblue.com>:
> 
> 
> Historically, CloudStack's debian/deb packages/repositories have never been supported
by the initial authors. For example, initial ACS version and all CCP releases never shipped
deb packages, nor in our (old and recent) documentation we promote installation/running CloudStack
on Debian/Ubuntu. Afaik, it was Wido who introduced it because he wanted to run CloudStack
on Ubuntu/Debian-based distro. Also, the packages are something that the project never shipped
or endorsed or supported, so it's up to the maintainers of various repositories how they are
building and hosting CloudStack packages. Even if we remove the packaging support in our branch/repository,
anyone can build CloudStack for any distro, several people/projects have packaging related
buildsystem/code separated from the project codebase. Most tutorials that I found are based
around Ubuntu 14.04 or CentOS, given that 12.04 is 4+ years old, we might not even have anyone
using CloudStack on it.
> 

I highly doubt somebody still runs Ubuntu 12.04 with a recent version of CloudStack.

4+ years in Qemu/libvirt time is a very long time.

> 
> That said -- I think 4.9 should at least not drop the support yet, just to let any Ubuntu
12.04 user who may be using it in the wild. If we look at the PR, the way we're dropping the
support is by simply bumping up few package dependency versions. The issue of supporting or
dropping support for Ubuntu 12.04 lies in those version changes only.
> 
> 
> The more important thing right now is to support at least Ubuntu 16.04 hosts as KVM guests
and usage-server hosts, which is much needed in both 4.9 and master branch for the upcoming
4.9.1.0 and 4.10.0.0 releases.
> 
> 
> Wido -- would it be acceptable to avoid bumping up the min. package dependency version,
i.e we don't change the pkg dependencies for cloudstack-agent and keep the version number
as it is for lsb-base, qemu-kvm, libvirt-bin for 4.9 branch. While on 4.10, we can discuss
if we want to drop the support now or plan this later.
> 
> 

Well, yes. But I don't know *what* might break on 12.04. I wrote the PR in May and there must
have been a reason for that.

Feel free to modify the PR and not bump those versions. Packages might work or not, not completely
sure.

Wido

> Regards.
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Wido den Hollander <wido@widodh.nl>
> Sent: 23 August 2016 11:38:43
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org; John Burwell; users@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Eliminating Support for Ubuntu 12.04
> 
> 
> > Op 23 augustus 2016 om 1:02 schreef John Burwell <john.burwell@shapeblue.com>:
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> > PR 1647 [1] proposes dropping support for Ubuntu 12.04 from 4.9.2.0+.  The primary
motivation for its removal is that the age of its libvirt and qemu versions greatly complicate
maintenance of the KVM integration.  However, Ubuntu 12.04 will be supported until April 2017
[2]. What would be the impact to our user community of removing support for Ubuntu 12.04 before
its EOL in April 2017?  If we don’t drop support for it in 4.x, would it be acceptable to
drop support for it in 5.0.0 which is currently scheduled for release at the end of 2016 [3]?
> >
> 
> The PR was supposed to go into 4.9 already, it just took way to long to get merged. So
that's why it would now go into 4.9.2
> 
> > If we do chose to drop support for Ubuntu 12.04 in 4.x, I propose that we remove
it in 4.10.0.0 rather than 4.9.2.0.  First, it is reasonable for users to expect that upgrading
between patch releases (i.e. 4.9.x.x -> 4.9.x+1.x) would not require system changes.  Dropping
a distribution would violate such an expectation.  Second, 4.9 is an LTS branch.  Therefore,
maintaining 12.04 support in 4.9 would provide LTS users with support for Ubuntu 12.04 until
May 2018 — well after its EOL.  Does this approach seem reasonable if we elect drop Ubuntu
12.04 in 4.x?
> 
> Again, this PR had to be merged earlier, not later. It's just very difficult packaging
wise to keep supporting 12.04 and 16.04 at the same time.
> 
> The Qemu and libvirt versions in 12.04 are truly ancient. I doubt anybody is running
stock 12.04 with CloudStack 4.8 right now for example.
> 
> The Ubuntu 12.04 debate has been popping up multiple times in the last year.
> 
> This PR has been open way to long, that's imho the main problem here.
> 
> I'm in favor of dropping 12.04, should have been done in 4.9 already and not wait any
longer.
> 
> Wido
> 
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -John
> >
> > [1]: https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/1647
> > [2]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
> > [3]: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/%5BPROPOSAL%5D+2016-2017+Release+Cycle+and+Calendar<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/[PROPOSAL]+2016-2017+Release+Cycle+and+Calendar>
> >
> >
> >
> > john.burwell@shapeblue.com
> > www.shapeblue.com<http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London VA WC2N 4HSUK
> > @shapeblue
> >
> >
> >
> 
> rohit.yadav@shapeblue.com 
> www.shapeblue.com
> 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London  WC2N 4HSUK
> @shapeblue
>   
>  
>

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