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From Jim Jagielski <...@jaguNET.com>
Subject Re: External fork of Cloudstack (was Re: [GitHub] cloudstack pull request: Is the project attempting a fork on Githu...)
Date Fri, 18 Mar 2016 19:24:30 GMT
That sounds like a cop-out to me related to what's really going
on.

> On Mar 17, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Tutkowski, Mike <Mike.Tutkowski@netapp.com> wrote:
> 
> As far as I understand, cloudstack/cloudstack is only being proposed to help with developer
workflow and CI.
> 
> To my understanding, all code that goes in there will end up back in the canonical ASF
CloudStack repo (and, as such, be mirrored to apache/cloudstack).
> 
> This is simply a workaround to help solve developer workflow and CI issues that we couldn't
due to lack of privileges on the current repo.
> 
> I do not believe anyone on the PMC is talking about forking CloudStack and going off
in a different direction.
> ________________________________________
> From: Chris Mattmann <mattmann@apache.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 9:52 AM
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: Re: External fork of Cloudstack (was Re: [GitHub] cloudstack pull request: Is
the project attempting a fork on Githu...)
> 
> Hi Sebastien,
> 
> 
> [..]
>>> 
>>> Hi Sebastien,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your reply and yes, I am a member of the ASF board.
>>> 
>>> The thing is, there was already some discussion of this at the
>>> ASF board meeting that happened yesterday. I can tell you that
>>> there were more than a few board members that were a bit concerned
>>> at the prospect of Apache Cloudstack forking and starting a new
>>> GitHub organization, so I’m here now to discuss.
>> 
>> We are not forking. In the sense that the canonical repo is at the ASF
>> and mirrored on apache/cloudstack.
> 
> OK, good though based on the rest of your replies, I actually see
> the opposite being said. Also “we” is the relative word here, which
> I’ll get back to later in this message.
> 
>> 
>> The cloudstack org on github existed and was empty, one of us contacted
>> github and we got the “control” of it.
>> 
>>> 
>>> I’m sorry that you are unhappy with the lack of access to GitHub
>>> facilities, however I’m confused, the ASF does provide mirroring,
>>> active GitHub issue,
>> 
>> As far as I know we cannot use github issues.
>> [..snip..]
>> To close PRs you need to make a commit.
> [..snip..]
>> Be able to use labels
>> Be able to setup our own triggers/hooks
> 
> David Nalley can speak to this as I’m not sure if you can or
> cannot or if infra@ is providing this. Thanks for stating this.
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> PMC desires and if so can you state that? I remember seeing a request
>>> that you wanted the ability to close pull requests and to be part of
>>> the experiment going on with the Whimsy PMC -
>> 
>> Indeed, and I (we) never heard back.
> 
> Right - that’s probably b/c it wasn’t discussed with the board
> until our last meeting which just happened yesterday. It’s
> my reading of the tea leaves that the experiment, while considered
> going in the right direction with Whimsy, is not open to other
> PMCs. It’s possible that we may as a board decide that further
> response is needed, but until that happens or if that doesn’t happen
> you can take my response until then.
> 
>> [..snip..]
> 
>> 
>>> The other thing is - is the new Cloudstack GitHub organization the
>>> result of a subset of the PMC going off and doing this -
>> 
>> I am not sure why you say subset. Let’s try to avoid polemics.
> 
> I’m not trying to attack.
> 
> I asked a simple question - how many/who in the Apache CloudStack PMC
> is intent on using this new Cloudstack GitHub organization? Not an
> attack, a question that I still don’t have an answer to.
> 
> I also wanted to gauge whether there are others on the PMC that will
> speak up. I’ll continue waiting to hear more about that.
> 
>> [..snip..]
>> Again, this is not about leaving the ASF. This is about accessing
>> productive tools and making use of them to their fullest.
>> 
>>> Finally, as for the Apache Cloudstack PMC - for the PMC the policy of
>>> the ASF is that the canonical repository at the moment is on ASF
>>> hardware.
>> 
>> And we would like the ASF to reconsider this.
> 
> Put bluntly, the decision is no, and it is in the hands of the ASF Infra@
> and based on
> discussions I’ve seen on public lists there and on board@ and part of the
> board
> meeting yesterday, Infra@ is not opening up the Whimsy experiment to other
> PMCs
> as of yet. They aren’t ready to declare an SLA; they aren’t ready for
> potential
> other PMCs to ask to use it too and for others to start thinking that
> capability
> is anything near operational. David Nalley can fill in more.
> 
>> 
>>> There are not any approved policies for external forks being the
>>> canonical
>>> repo, especially those in another GitHub organization not managed by the
>>> ASF. There is an experiment in the Apache Whimsy PMC to experiment with
>>> GitHub as the canonical repo for an apache/* org project. That is still
>>> an
>>> experiment and not widely offered by ASF infra to all PMCs.
>>> 
>> 
>> Are other projects than Whimsy being allowed to experiment ?
> 
> Not at this time.
> 
>> [..snip..]
>>> 
>> 
>> And just to clarify, you are acting here as “the board” ? Meaning the
>> board asked you to get on dev@ and talk with our community after seeing
>> our report ?
>> I am asking because the PMC has not received an official response from
>> the board based on our report (and annexed interim report).
> 
> I am one of 9 Directors, but I believe if you’d like to test the waters
> that
> I have support of other board members in asking these questions based on
> the
> meetings yesterday. And as one of the Directors of the board and a
> long-time
> ASF’er, I’m here also as a concerned member since some actions that I have
> seen
> by Cloudstack related to this GitHub external organization imply to me
> that there
> is something more than meets the eye here.
> 
> Let’s keep discussing, hopefully with more participation from the
> community besides
> the two of us.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
> 
>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Sebastien Goasguen <runseb@gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: "dev@cloudstack.apache.org" <dev@cloudstack.apache.org>
>>> Date: Thursday, March 17, 2016 at 3:15 AM
>>> To: "dev@cloudstack.apache.org" <dev@cloudstack.apache.org>
>>> Subject: Re: External fork of Cloudstack (was Re: [GitHub] cloudstack
>>> pull
>>> request: Is the project attempting a fork on Githu...)
>>> 
>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>> 
>>>> We have never met but i recognize your name from members only ASF
>>>> threads.
>>>> 
>>>> For the benefit of others on this list it is useful to mention that you
>>>> are a member of the ASF board.
>>>> 
>>>> The PMC has filed its quarterly report  for march, as well as an
>>>> interim
>>>> report about a month ago. The interim report was acknowledged by Sam
>>>> Ruby
>>>> couple days ago only.
>>>> 
>>>> I am assuming that the board will discuss it at its monthly meeting and
>>>> that we will hear from the board then.
>>>> 
>>>> Other than that the discussions are active on dev@ , but roughly we
>>>> feel
>>>> that we are being hurt by lack of access to github facilities.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> 
>>>> -Sebastien
>>>> 
>>>>> On 17 Mar 2016, at 00:04, Chris Mattmann <mattmann@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sorry about my crude way of filing a PR for this, but I heard
>>>>> information about the Apache Cloudstack PMC actively
>>>>> discussing managing the project with GitHub as the primary source
>>>>> in a different organization than the github.com/apache/ org.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can someone clarify this for me? Clearly wearing my board hat,
>>>>> this is not something we allow for any of our ASF projects.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Chris “board hat on” Mattmann
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 


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