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From Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
Subject Re: External fork of Cloudstack (was Re: [GitHub] cloudstack pull request: Is the project attempting a fork on Githu...)
Date Fri, 18 Mar 2016 19:28:04 GMT
If this gives us the github permissions we need, then we need to work with
them to figure out the details...

*Will STEVENS*
Lead Developer

*CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6
w cloudops.com *|* tw @CloudOps_

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com> wrote:

> That sounds like a cop-out to me related to what's really going
> on.
>
> > On Mar 17, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Tutkowski, Mike <Mike.Tutkowski@netapp.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > As far as I understand, cloudstack/cloudstack is only being proposed to
> help with developer workflow and CI.
> >
> > To my understanding, all code that goes in there will end up back in the
> canonical ASF CloudStack repo (and, as such, be mirrored to
> apache/cloudstack).
> >
> > This is simply a workaround to help solve developer workflow and CI
> issues that we couldn't due to lack of privileges on the current repo.
> >
> > I do not believe anyone on the PMC is talking about forking CloudStack
> and going off in a different direction.
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Chris Mattmann <mattmann@apache.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 9:52 AM
> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: External fork of Cloudstack (was Re: [GitHub] cloudstack
> pull request: Is the project attempting a fork on Githu...)
> >
> > Hi Sebastien,
> >
> >
> > [..]
> >>>
> >>> Hi Sebastien,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for your reply and yes, I am a member of the ASF board.
> >>>
> >>> The thing is, there was already some discussion of this at the
> >>> ASF board meeting that happened yesterday. I can tell you that
> >>> there were more than a few board members that were a bit concerned
> >>> at the prospect of Apache Cloudstack forking and starting a new
> >>> GitHub organization, so I’m here now to discuss.
> >>
> >> We are not forking. In the sense that the canonical repo is at the ASF
> >> and mirrored on apache/cloudstack.
> >
> > OK, good though based on the rest of your replies, I actually see
> > the opposite being said. Also “we” is the relative word here, which
> > I’ll get back to later in this message.
> >
> >>
> >> The cloudstack org on github existed and was empty, one of us contacted
> >> github and we got the “control” of it.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I’m sorry that you are unhappy with the lack of access to GitHub
> >>> facilities, however I’m confused, the ASF does provide mirroring,
> >>> active GitHub issue,
> >>
> >> As far as I know we cannot use github issues.
> >> [..snip..]
> >> To close PRs you need to make a commit.
> > [..snip..]
> >> Be able to use labels
> >> Be able to setup our own triggers/hooks
> >
> > David Nalley can speak to this as I’m not sure if you can or
> > cannot or if infra@ is providing this. Thanks for stating this.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> PMC desires and if so can you state that? I remember seeing a request
> >>> that you wanted the ability to close pull requests and to be part of
> >>> the experiment going on with the Whimsy PMC -
> >>
> >> Indeed, and I (we) never heard back.
> >
> > Right - that’s probably b/c it wasn’t discussed with the board
> > until our last meeting which just happened yesterday. It’s
> > my reading of the tea leaves that the experiment, while considered
> > going in the right direction with Whimsy, is not open to other
> > PMCs. It’s possible that we may as a board decide that further
> > response is needed, but until that happens or if that doesn’t happen
> > you can take my response until then.
> >
> >> [..snip..]
> >
> >>
> >>> The other thing is - is the new Cloudstack GitHub organization the
> >>> result of a subset of the PMC going off and doing this -
> >>
> >> I am not sure why you say subset. Let’s try to avoid polemics.
> >
> > I’m not trying to attack.
> >
> > I asked a simple question - how many/who in the Apache CloudStack PMC
> > is intent on using this new Cloudstack GitHub organization? Not an
> > attack, a question that I still don’t have an answer to.
> >
> > I also wanted to gauge whether there are others on the PMC that will
> > speak up. I’ll continue waiting to hear more about that.
> >
> >> [..snip..]
> >> Again, this is not about leaving the ASF. This is about accessing
> >> productive tools and making use of them to their fullest.
> >>
> >>> Finally, as for the Apache Cloudstack PMC - for the PMC the policy of
> >>> the ASF is that the canonical repository at the moment is on ASF
> >>> hardware.
> >>
> >> And we would like the ASF to reconsider this.
> >
> > Put bluntly, the decision is no, and it is in the hands of the ASF Infra@
> > and based on
> > discussions I’ve seen on public lists there and on board@ and part of
> the
> > board
> > meeting yesterday, Infra@ is not opening up the Whimsy experiment to
> other
> > PMCs
> > as of yet. They aren’t ready to declare an SLA; they aren’t ready for
> > potential
> > other PMCs to ask to use it too and for others to start thinking that
> > capability
> > is anything near operational. David Nalley can fill in more.
> >
> >>
> >>> There are not any approved policies for external forks being the
> >>> canonical
> >>> repo, especially those in another GitHub organization not managed by
> the
> >>> ASF. There is an experiment in the Apache Whimsy PMC to experiment with
> >>> GitHub as the canonical repo for an apache/* org project. That is still
> >>> an
> >>> experiment and not widely offered by ASF infra to all PMCs.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Are other projects than Whimsy being allowed to experiment ?
> >
> > Not at this time.
> >
> >> [..snip..]
> >>>
> >>
> >> And just to clarify, you are acting here as “the board” ? Meaning the
> >> board asked you to get on dev@ and talk with our community after seeing
> >> our report ?
> >> I am asking because the PMC has not received an official response from
> >> the board based on our report (and annexed interim report).
> >
> > I am one of 9 Directors, but I believe if you’d like to test the waters
> > that
> > I have support of other board members in asking these questions based on
> > the
> > meetings yesterday. And as one of the Directors of the board and a
> > long-time
> > ASF’er, I’m here also as a concerned member since some actions that I
> have
> > seen
> > by Cloudstack related to this GitHub external organization imply to me
> > that there
> > is something more than meets the eye here.
> >
> > Let’s keep discussing, hopefully with more participation from the
> > community besides
> > the two of us.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Chris
> >
> >>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Chris
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Sebastien Goasguen <runseb@gmail.com>
> >>> Reply-To: "dev@cloudstack.apache.org" <dev@cloudstack.apache.org>
> >>> Date: Thursday, March 17, 2016 at 3:15 AM
> >>> To: "dev@cloudstack.apache.org" <dev@cloudstack.apache.org>
> >>> Subject: Re: External fork of Cloudstack (was Re: [GitHub] cloudstack
> >>> pull
> >>> request: Is the project attempting a fork on Githu...)
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Chris,
> >>>>
> >>>> We have never met but i recognize your name from members only ASF
> >>>> threads.
> >>>>
> >>>> For the benefit of others on this list it is useful to mention that
> you
> >>>> are a member of the ASF board.
> >>>>
> >>>> The PMC has filed its quarterly report  for march, as well as an
> >>>> interim
> >>>> report about a month ago. The interim report was acknowledged by Sam
> >>>> Ruby
> >>>> couple days ago only.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am assuming that the board will discuss it at its monthly meeting
> and
> >>>> that we will hear from the board then.
> >>>>
> >>>> Other than that the discussions are active on dev@ , but roughly we
> >>>> feel
> >>>> that we are being hurt by lack of access to github facilities.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>>
> >>>> -Sebastien
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 17 Mar 2016, at 00:04, Chris Mattmann <mattmann@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sorry about my crude way of filing a PR for this, but I heard
> >>>>> information about the Apache Cloudstack PMC actively
> >>>>> discussing managing the project with GitHub as the primary source
> >>>>> in a different organization than the github.com/apache/ org.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Can someone clarify this for me? Clearly wearing my board hat,
> >>>>> this is not something we allow for any of our ASF projects.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Chris “board hat on” Mattmann
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

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