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From Paul Angus <paul.an...@shapeblue.com>
Subject RE: [Propose][New Feature] Storage Snapshots
Date Mon, 08 Feb 2016 19:32:40 GMT
Just to make sure I'm on the same page, are we talking about; https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-9278 ?

The FS reads (to me) more like 1a + the possibility to export to secondary storage if required?
Have I understood correctly?
I have seen [1a] implemented for VMware by NetApp in their beta CloudStack plugin (pleased I can say that without Mike beating me up now). No changes to the CloudStack API were required. (nb it didn't export to secondary storage).



1. VM Snapshot (point-in-time hypervisor based snapshots)
1a. SAN assisted VM snapshots (point-in-time hypervisor snapshot takes place on transparently SAN to avoid performance issue in disk chains)
2. SAN Snapshot (Storage Snapshot) - NEW
3. Volume Snapshot (current old/slow transfer to secstorage)
4. Backup - JUST AN IDEAL.




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-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 7:16 PM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature] Storage Snapshots

Correct, Will.

That Global Settings would only be for managed storage. Non-managed
(traditional) volume snapshots are completely un-impacted by this feature.

If we need to sometimes keep the snapshots on the SAN and sometimes push
them to secondary storage, we'll need a more robust solution than Global
Settings, though.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Will Stevens <wstevens@cloudops.com> wrote:

> Sorry. I missed a bit of context when I responded. The global setting
> would be only for the managed storage case, currently being called Storage
> Snapshots, and is only to determine if a copy is pushed to secondary
> storage right? The global setting would not change the behavior of the
> Volume Snapshots right?
>
> I was referring to the need for Volume Snapshots and Storage Snapshots to
> exist together. Disregard my comment. I caught up on context after I
> posted. My bad...
>
> *Will STEVENS*
> Lead Developer
>
> *CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
> 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6
> w cloudops.com *|* tw @CloudOps_
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > wrote:
>
> > Hey Will,
> >
> > Who's picking the behavior? Is it the cloud provider or the end user?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Will Stevens <wstevens@cloudops.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I don't think a global setting is a good option because we need both
> > > functionality to be available at the same time and for different use
> > cases
> > > to be able to pick which they choose.
> > >
> > > *Will STEVENS*
> > > Lead Developer
> > >
> > > *CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
> > > 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6
> > > w cloudops.com *|* tw @CloudOps_
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Now that I re-read your e-mail, it dawned on me: The end-user doesn't
> > > care
> > > > where the snapshot is.
> > > >
> > > > If that's true, then we should perhaps control this via Global
> Settings
> > > or
> > > > something.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > It's not ideal - true, but it does allow us to be backward
> > compatible.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have other ideas, though, about how to maintain backward
> > > > > compatibility, I'm definitely open to hear them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Syed Mushtaq <
> > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hi Mike,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Adding a flag to createSnapshot was the first and the most obvious
> > > thing
> > > > >> that came to our minds. The problem that I had with this was that:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1) I feel it is exposing something to the end user that is
> internal
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > >> cloud.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2) We have to follow two different ways of restore/deletion in the
> > > same
> > > > >> code path depending on where the Snapshot resides which I find
> kind
> > > of a
> > > > >> bad design.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> But if exposing a archive flag to the end user is acceptable then
> we
> > > can
> > > > >> definitely use this instead of adding the StorageSnapshot API
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > >> -Syed
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > >> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Hi Pierre-Luc,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > My recommendation would be this:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Add an "archive" flag to the current volume-snapshot API. Its
> > > default
> > > > >> would
> > > > >> > be "false" because that would be backward compatible with how
> 4.6
> > > has
> > > > >> > volume snapshots implemented (i.e. they stay on the SAN in 4.6,
> > 4.7,
> > > > and
> > > > >> > 4.8).
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > If you set archive=true, then we would perform a background
> > > migration
> > > > of
> > > > >> > the snapshot from the SAN to the secondary storage (then delete
> > the
> > > > SAN
> > > > >> > snapshot).
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > That archive parameter would only be valid for managed storage.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Sound reasonable?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Also, a VM snapshot that includes disks provided by managed
> > storage
> > > > >> should
> > > > >> > work.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Talk to you later,
> > > > >> > Mike
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Pierre-Luc Dion <
> > pdion@cloudops.com
> > > >
> > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > > Mike,
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > In terms of API's, would you prefer introducing a parameter to
> > the
> > > > >> > existing
> > > > >> > > VolumeSnapshot, example: extract={true|false} with a
> default
> > > > value
> > > > >> of
> > > > >> > > true which would extract snapshot into the secondary storage,
> > > which
> > > > >> is
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > current default behavior. Then for SAN snapshot that remain on
> > the
> > > > >> SAN we
> > > > >> > > would just set "extract=false" ? as oppose to create a new
> > > > >> > > StorageSnapshot API ?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Paul,
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > From what I'm seeing so far, we can't do a VM-snapshot when
> > using
> > > > >> managed
> > > > >> > > storage for VM having more than one Volume. For the reason
> that
> > > > >> snapshot
> > > > >> > > are performed outside of the hypervisor awareness and
> > > > asynchronously.
> > > > >> If
> > > > >> > > someone have a way to address that, it would make thinks much
> > more
> > > > >> > > attractive.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Ian Rae <irae@cloudops.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > > I think a service provider backup scenario is more likely to
> > > take
> > > > >> > > advantage
> > > > >> > > > of SAN snapshot. There are a few reasons for this.
> Traditional
> > > > >> backups
> > > > >> > > > involve access to the file system, and there is an
> expectation
> > > > that
> > > > >> > this
> > > > >> > > > can be done with reasonably short time frames without
> > negatively
> > > > >> > > impacting
> > > > >> > > > VM performance, and that the backup orchestrator can apply
> > > various
> > > > >> > logic
> > > > >> > > > and or transformations to the data (compress, encrypt,
> deltas
> > > > >> etc...).
> > > > >> > > > While it is true that one could apply a backup process to a
> > > cloud
> > > > >> > > snapshot,
> > > > >> > > > this would be slow and inefficient requiring the data to be
> > > moved
> > > > >> > several
> > > > >> > > > times and there are some major bottlenecks with cloud
> > snapshots.
> > > > >> With a
> > > > >> > > > cloud snapshot - there seems to be no reasonable expectation
> > of
> > > > >> being
> > > > >> > > able
> > > > >> > > > to do differential snapshots (I think this depends on the
> > > > >> hypervisor)
> > > > >> > and
> > > > >> > > > if you do differential snapshots this will make file backups
> > > from
> > > > >> those
> > > > >> > > > snapshots even more complicated to orchestrate.
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > Suspect there needs to be a different thread on how to
> better
> > > > enable
> > > > >> > > > backups, as a service. As per Paul's suggestion, but it is a
> > > > related
> > > > >> > > > workflow so relevant to this discussion.
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > Ian
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > On Monday, February 8, 2016, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > >> > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com>
> > > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > > To me it sounds like number two and number three are
> > different
> > > > >> uses
> > > > >> > for
> > > > >> > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > same "thing"(which is totally fine).
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > As for taking a fast SAN snapshot and exporting it
> > > > >> asynchronously, do
> > > > >> > > we
> > > > >> > > > > see the SSVM as performing the export?
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > To be backwards compatible with what we have in 4.6 and
> > later
> > > > for
> > > > >> > > volume
> > > > >> > > > > snapshots for managed storage, I think it might be easier
> if
> > > we
> > > > >> pass
> > > > >> > > in a
> > > > >> > > > > flag that says whether or not to archive the SAN snapshot
> > > > (which,
> > > > >> I
> > > > >> > > > think,
> > > > >> > > > > is something that you suggested, as well, Pierre-Luc).
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > On Monday, February 8, 2016, Pierre-Luc Dion <
> > > > pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > The reason behind the creation of a SAN snapshot which
> is
> > > > >> exported
> > > > >> > > into
> > > > >> > > > > > secondary storage, is because creating a copy of the
> .VHD
> > > > >> directly
> > > > >> > > > would
> > > > >> > > > > > impact uptime of the VM as creating that copy take lots
> of
> > > > time.
> > > > >> > Has
> > > > >> > > > > oppose
> > > > >> > > > > > to a SAN snapshot that is close to instantaneous which
> can
> > > > >> > afterward
> > > > >> > > be
> > > > >> > > > > > clone into Secondary Storage asynchronously.
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > I would suspect an extracted VolumeSnapshot taken from a
> > SAN
> > > > >> > snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > could
> > > > >> > > > > > have is SAN snapshot deleted to avoid duplica and space
> > > > >> consumption
> > > > >> > > on
> > > > >> > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > Primary Storage side.
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > I see 3 definitions in our current discussion regarding
> > the
> > > > term
> > > > >> > > > snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > > (these are not official terminology but by own
> > > interpretation
> > > > of
> > > > >> > > them):
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > 1. *Snapshot* (AKA: Storage Snapshot / Mike's definition
> > of
> > > a
> > > > >> > > > snapshot):
> > > > >> > > > > > it's a volume snapshot at the storage level, point in
> time
> > > of
> > > > >> your
> > > > >> > > > data.
> > > > >> > > > > it
> > > > >> > > > > > reside on the primary storage. Useful and efficient for
> > > > software
> > > > >> > side
> > > > >> > > > > > incident.
> > > > >> > > > > > 2. *Cloud Snapshot *( AKA: CloudStack VolumeSnapshot/
> > cloud
> > > > >> backup
> > > > >> > > > aws-S3
> > > > >> > > > > > style ): Point in time copy of the Virtual Disk that
> > reside
> > > > on a
> > > > >> > > > > different
> > > > >> > > > > > storage array then the original Volume. Facilitate data
> > > > >> migration
> > > > >> > > > between
> > > > >> > > > > > clusters and, in case of primary storage incident,
> Volume
> > > > >> snapshots
> > > > >> > > are
> > > > >> > > > > not
> > > > >> > > > > > impacted and can be reuse.
> > > > >> > > > > > 3. *Backup*: Archival of your Virtual-machines data that
> > > also
> > > > >> > > validate
> > > > >> > > > > data
> > > > >> > > > > > integrity, provide a storage efficient archiving method
> > and
> > > an
> > > > >> > > > > independent
> > > > >> > > > > > way to restore your data in case of an major
> > infrastructure
> > > > >> > disaster.
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > PL
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > >> > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com <javascript:;>
> > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > So, let's see if I currently follow the requirements:
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > * Augment volume snapshots for managed storage to
> > > > >> conditionally
> > > > >> > > > export
> > > > >> > > > > > data
> > > > >> > > > > > > to NFS. The current process of taking a snapshot on
> the
> > > SAN
> > > > is
> > > > >> > > fine,
> > > > >> > > > > but
> > > > >> > > > > > > we'd like the option to export the data to NFS, as
> well.
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > Questions:
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > Once the data has been exported to NFS, do we keep the
> > SAN
> > > > >> > snapshot
> > > > >> > > > or
> > > > >> > > > > > > delete it?
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > If we are deleting the SAN snapshot, then why don't we
> > > just
> > > > >> copy
> > > > >> > > the
> > > > >> > > > > VHD
> > > > >> > > > > > > from primary to secondary the way we do today for
> > > > non-managed
> > > > >> > (i.e.
> > > > >> > > > > > > traditional) storage? Why create a SAN snapshot in
> that
> > > > >> scenario?
> > > > >> > > > > Perhaps
> > > > >> > > > > > > to have the SSVM mount and perform the VHD copy to
> > > secondary
> > > > >> > > storage
> > > > >> > > > > > > instead of a XenServer host?
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks for the clarification.
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > By the way, to me a backup is when you copy data from
> > one
> > > > >> storage
> > > > >> > > > > system
> > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > another (regardless of features, if any, to restore
> the
> > > data
> > > > >> in
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > future). A snapshot is a point-in-time view of the
> data
> > > of a
> > > > >> > volume
> > > > >> > > > and
> > > > >> > > > > > > it's stored on the same storage system as the volume.
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Pierre-Luc Dion <
> > > > >> > > pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > That's fun to see that discussion happening. I 100%
> > > agree
> > > > >> with
> > > > >> > > > Paul's
> > > > >> > > > > > > > points of view. VolumeSnapshot are not a backup,
> but I
> > > do
> > > > >> > > consider
> > > > >> > > > > them
> > > > >> > > > > > > as
> > > > >> > > > > > > > a safety vest against Primary Storage failure,
> because
> > > > >> failure
> > > > >> > > > append
> > > > >> > > > > > > :-( .
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > The current proposal around snapshots that reside on
> > the
> > > > >> > primary
> > > > >> > > > > > storage
> > > > >> > > > > > > or
> > > > >> > > > > > > > snapshots that end in the Secondary Storage is not
> to
> > > > >> address
> > > > >> > > any
> > > > >> > > > > kind
> > > > >> > > > > > > of
> > > > >> > > > > > > > backups requirement because a snapshot is not a
> > backup,
> > > > >> event
> > > > >> > an
> > > > >> > > > > > > extracted
> > > > >> > > > > > > > VM snapshot.
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > The main idea, and again this is for managed
> storage;
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > 1. StorageSnapshotAPI: Provide storage side snapshot
> > > > >> capability
> > > > >> > > for
> > > > >> > > > > > fast
> > > > >> > > > > > > > response time that support rollback to previous
> > > timestamp,
> > > > >> > create
> > > > >> > > > new
> > > > >> > > > > > > > volume and maybe create template.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > not required to be a new API if the work is
> > already
> > > > >> done, I
> > > > >> > > > think
> > > > >> > > > > > > this
> > > > >> > > > > > > > is a different behaviors than the user expectation
> of
> > a
> > > > >> > > > > > volume-snapshot.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > 2. VolumeSnapshotAPI: Provide current cloudstack
> > > behavior
> > > > >> that
> > > > >> > > > create
> > > > >> > > > > > an
> > > > >> > > > > > > > extraction of a volume into SecondaryStorage which
> can
> > > be
> > > > >> reuse
> > > > >> > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > create a
> > > > >> > > > > > > > new volume into another Primary Storage. This type
> of
> > > > >> snapshot
> > > > >> > > is a
> > > > >> > > > > > slow
> > > > >> > > > > > > > job since yes it would have to copy the full volume
> > size
> > > > on
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > > > > Secondary
> > > > >> > > > > > > > storage.
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > PL
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Syed Mushtaq <
> > > > >> > > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > I think I share you view on the 'Ideal world'.
> > Backup
> > > > (via
> > > > >> > > Volume
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > Snapshots) is a huge bottleneck in Cloudstack.
> This
> > is
> > > > >> > > amplified
> > > > >> > > > > > > > especially
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > when you have a object storage as your secondary
> > > storage
> > > > >> > > because
> > > > >> > > > it
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > requires two copies (one to an NFS staging area
> and
> > > from
> > > > >> > there
> > > > >> > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > object
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > storage). And not to mention that all these copies
> > are
> > > > >> > > consuming
> > > > >> > > > > > > > hypervisor
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > resources. Xenserver's Dom0 is also a huge
> > bottleneck
> > > as
> > > > >> all
> > > > >> > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > Network
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > and I/O flow through it. So our intention of
> > proposing
> > > > the
> > > > >> > > > "Storage
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > Snapshots" is to give a better way of achiving
> > > snapshots
> > > > >> > while
> > > > >> > > > > still
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > keeping the original definition of volume
> snpashots
> > > (ie
> > > > >> > upload
> > > > >> > > to
> > > > >> > > > > sec
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > storage).
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > But as Erik pointed out volume snapshots are not
> > > > backups.
> > > > >> > They
> > > > >> > > > > don't
> > > > >> > > > > > > work
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > form multi-disk LVM volume groups and dynamic
> > disks. I
> > > > am
> > > > >> all
> > > > >> > > in
> > > > >> > > > > for
> > > > >> > > > > > a
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > better backup solution which handles these use
> cases
> > > and
> > > > >> > > utilizes
> > > > >> > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > storage's advanced features.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Paul Angus <
> > > > >> > > > > > paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;> <javascript:;>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In the beginning... there were CloudStack
> > snapshots
> > > > and
> > > > >> > they
> > > > >> > > > were
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > actually
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > volume snapshots not hypervisor point-in-time
> > > > snapshots.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Then VM snapshots were created (which are
> > > > point-in-time
> > > > >> > > > > hypervisor
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > snapshots) and we started referring to the
> > original
> > > > >> > snapshots
> > > > >> > > > as
> > > > >> > > > > > > volume
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > snapshots.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > CloudStack does not offer 'backups', but many
> > people
> > > > use
> > > > >> > > volume
> > > > >> > > > > > > > snapshots
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > as backups. However you can't in-place restore
> > > volume
> > > > >> > > snapshots
> > > > >> > > > > and
> > > > >> > > > > > > if
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > you
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > have a VM with multiple volumes, the volume
> > > snapshots
> > > > >> must
> > > > >> > be
> > > > >> > > > > done
> > > > >> > > > > > in
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > series, meaning that the state across all of the
> > > > >> volumes is
> > > > >> > > > > > unlikely
> > > > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > be
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > consistent.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > 'Actual Backups' would enable all of the restore
> > > > options
> > > > >> > > which
> > > > >> > > > > > users
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > might
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > expect as well options as to where they might be
> > > > >> stored. In
> > > > >> > > my
> > > > >> > > > > > ideal
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > world
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > they would also be able to leverage back-end
> > > hardware
> > > > >> (such
> > > > >> > > as
> > > > >> > > > > > > > Solidfire,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > NetApp etc :) ) and software such as Veeam,
> > > Commvault
> > > > >> etc
> > > > >> > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > accelerate
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > process.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > [image: ShapeBlue] <http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Paul Angus
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > VP Technology , ShapeBlue
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > d: *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44 203 603 0540*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>
> |
> > > > >> > > > > m:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *+44 7711 418784* <+44%207711%20418784>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > e: *paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > |
> > > > >> > > > > t: @cloudyangus*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>%20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus>
> > > > >> > > > > > | w:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *www.shapeblue.com* <http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > a: 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden London WC2N
> > 4HS
> > > UK
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Shape Blue Ltd is a company incorporated in
> > England
> > > &
> > > > >> > Wales.
> > > > >> > > > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Services India LLP is a company incorporated in
> > > India
> > > > >> and
> > > > >> > is
> > > > >> > > > > > operated
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > under
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil
> > > > >> Consultoria
> > > > >> > > Ltda
> > > > >> > > > > is
> > > > >> > > > > > a
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > company incorporated in Brasil and is operated
> > under
> > > > >> > license
> > > > >> > > > from
> > > > >> > > > > > > Shape
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company
> > > registered
> > > > >> by
> > > > >> > The
> > > > >> > > > > > > Republic
> > > > >> > > > > > > > of
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > South Africa and is traded under license from
> > Shape
> > > > Blue
> > > > >> > Ltd.
> > > > >> > > > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > a registered trademark.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > This email and any attachments to it may be
> > > > confidential
> > > > >> > and
> > > > >> > > > are
> > > > >> > > > > > > > intended
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > solely for the use of the individual to whom it
> is
> > > > >> > addressed.
> > > > >> > > > Any
> > > > >> > > > > > > views
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > or
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > opinions expressed are solely those of the
> author
> > > and
> > > > do
> > > > >> > not
> > > > >> > > > > > > > necessarily
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or related
> > > > companies.
> > > > >> If
> > > > >> > > you
> > > > >> > > > > are
> > > > >> > > > > > > not
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > intended recipient of this email, you must
> neither
> > > > take
> > > > >> any
> > > > >> > > > > action
> > > > >> > > > > > > > based
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > upon its contents, nor copy or show it to
> anyone.
> > > > Please
> > > > >> > > > contact
> > > > >> > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > sender
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > if you believe you have received this email in
> > > error.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > From: Syed Mushtaq [mailto:
> > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;> <javascript:;>]
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 4:58 PM
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature] Storage
> > > Snapshots
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Paul,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > When you say actual backups, how would it be
> > > different
> > > > >> from
> > > > >> > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > Volume
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Snapshots that exist currently. My understanding
> > is
> > > > that
> > > > >> > > > Backups
> > > > >> > > > > > end
> > > > >> > > > > > > up
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sec Storage whereas Snapshots are just a
> > > point-in-time
> > > > >> > state
> > > > >> > > of
> > > > >> > > > > > your
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > volume
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > which can be restored back correct?
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -Syed
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Paul Angus <
> > > > >> > > > > > > paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> <javascript:;>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Syed,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > As I understand it, the SolidFire plugin will
> > > export
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > > > snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > secondary storage if the user requests a
> > template
> > > > from
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > > > > snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > > > > or
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > wants to download the snapshot from the cloud.
> > > This
> > > > >> is a
> > > > >> > > > good,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > pragmatic approach and yes Mike the SolidFire
> > > > storage
> > > > >> is
> > > > >> > > > super
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > reliable and snapshots on SolidFire arrays
> take
> > up
> > > > >> next
> > > > >> > to
> > > > >> > > no
> > > > >> > > > > > > space.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > BUT I think that we are talking about a more
> > > general
> > > > >> > > purpose
> > > > >> > > > > API,
> > > > >> > > > > > > and
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > other storage systems may not be as awesome as
> > > > Mike's.
> > > > >> > > That's
> > > > >> > > > > my
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > concern. Also, the time to transfer for say
> 1TB
> > to
> > > > >> move
> > > > >> > > from
> > > > >> > > > > > > primary
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > to sec storage and then create a VM template
> out
> > > of
> > > > it
> > > > >> > may
> > > > >> > > be
> > > > >> > > > > too
> > > > >> > > > > > > > long
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > for users.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > @Mike I don’t think 'we' use the term volume
> > > > snapshot
> > > > >> for
> > > > >> > > > > backup,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > it's
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > just that users want to do backups and a
> volume
> > > > >> snapshot
> > > > >> > is
> > > > >> > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > only
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > type of snapshot that copies the disk
> elsewhere
> > > and
> > > > >> can
> > > > >> > be
> > > > >> > > > > > > scheduled.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I'm 'pondering' the implications of enabling
> > > actual
> > > > >> > backups
> > > > >> > > > > > > (through
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > recognised backup providers) and the user
> > > > requirements
> > > > >> > > around
> > > > >> > > > > > them
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > (particularly restoration use cases) as a
> > separate
> > > > >> thread
> > > > >> > > of
> > > > >> > > > > > work.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [image: ShapeBlue] <http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > Paul
> > > > >> Angus
> > > > >> > > VP
> > > > >> > > > > > > > Technology
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > , ShapeBlue
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > d: *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44 203 603 0540*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>
> > > > >> > > > |
> > > > >> > > > > m:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > *+44 7711 418784* <+44%207711%20418784>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > e: *paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > <javascript:;> |
> > > > >> > > > > t: @cloudyangus*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > %20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus> | w:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > *www.shapeblue.com* <http://www.shapeblue.com
> >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > a: 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden London WC2N
> > 4HS
> > > > UK
> > > > >> > Shape
> > > > >> > > > > Blue
> > > > >> > > > > > > Ltd
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > is a company incorporated in England & Wales.
> > > > >> ShapeBlue
> > > > >> > > > > Services
> > > > >> > > > > > > > India
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > LLP is a company incorporated in India and is
> > > > operated
> > > > >> > > under
> > > > >> > > > > > > license
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil
> > Consultoria
> > > > >> Ltda
> > > > >> > is
> > > > >> > > a
> > > > >> > > > > > > company
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > incorporated in Brasil and is operated under
> > > license
> > > > >> from
> > > > >> > > > Shape
> > > > >> > > > > > > Blue
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company
> > registered
> > > by
> > > > >> The
> > > > >> > > > > Republic
> > > > >> > > > > > > of
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > South Africa and is traded under license from
> > > Shape
> > > > >> Blue
> > > > >> > > Ltd.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ShapeBlue is a registered trademark.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > This email and any attachments to it may be
> > > > >> confidential
> > > > >> > > and
> > > > >> > > > > are
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > intended solely for the use of the individual
> to
> > > > whom
> > > > >> it
> > > > >> > is
> > > > >> > > > > > > > addressed.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Any views or opinions expressed are solely
> those
> > > of
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > > author
> > > > >> > > > > > and
> > > > >> > > > > > > do
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > not necessarily represent those of Shape Blue
> > Ltd
> > > or
> > > > >> > > related
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > companies. If you are not the intended
> recipient
> > > of
> > > > >> this
> > > > >> > > > email,
> > > > >> > > > > > you
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > must neither take any action based upon its
> > > > contents,
> > > > >> nor
> > > > >> > > > copy
> > > > >> > > > > or
> > > > >> > > > > > > > show
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > it to anyone. Please contact the sender if you
> > > > believe
> > > > >> > you
> > > > >> > > > have
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > received
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > this email in error.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > From: Syed Mushtaq [mailto:
> > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>]
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: 05 February 2016 15:31
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature] Storage
> > > > Snapshots
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I think the terminology confusion comes from
> AWS
> > > > where
> > > > >> > they
> > > > >> > > > do
> > > > >> > > > > > EBS
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > snapshots backed up to S3 and CloudStack sort
> of
> > > > >> followed
> > > > >> > > > that.
> > > > >> > > > > > And
> > > > >> > > > > > > > as
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > an end user who is oblivious to the internals
> of
> > > my
> > > > >> > > provider,
> > > > >> > > > > my
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > expectation would be something similar to what
> > AWS
> > > > as
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > > is
> > > > >> > > > > my
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > biggest reference point.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > To your point Mike, I agree that a Primary
> > Storage
> > > > >> > failure
> > > > >> > > on
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > SolidFire is unlikely, there are other
> > motivations
> > > > >> for us
> > > > >> > > to
> > > > >> > > > > push
> > > > >> > > > > > > > data
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > to secondary storage. Primary storage (atleast
> > for
> > > > us)
> > > > >> > > costs
> > > > >> > > > > > > around 3
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > times as much as secondary storage and
> snapshots
> > > on
> > > > >> > primary
> > > > >> > > > > > storage
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > are rarely used (especially for some of our
> > > > customers
> > > > >> who
> > > > >> > > do
> > > > >> > > > > > daily
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > backups).
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Mike
> Tutkowski
> > <
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > >> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the weirdness is around terminology.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > For most systems I've worked on, a snapshot
> > and
> > > a
> > > > >> > backup
> > > > >> > > > are
> > > > >> > > > > > two
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > completely different things (but CloudStack
> > has
> > > > >> > > > traditionally
> > > > >> > > > > > > used
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the term "volume snapshot" to mean backup).
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > I will put in a SolidFire "plug" here and
> say,
> > > > >> though,
> > > > >> > > that
> > > > >> > > > > if
> > > > >> > > > > > > your
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > primary storage is running on SolidFire that
> > it
> > > is
> > > > >> > > unlikely
> > > > >> > > > > > > you'll
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > encounter an issue where your primary
> storage
> > > goes
> > > > >> > > offline
> > > > >> > > > > (and
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > you'll even maintain your performance
> > guarantees
> > > > >> during
> > > > >> > > > > failure
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > scenarios and upgrades, as well). That being
> > the
> > > > >> case,
> > > > >> > it
> > > > >> > > > is
> > > > >> > > > > > less
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > useful to require a backup to Swift (but
> it's
> > > > >> perfectly
> > > > >> > > OK
> > > > >> > > > if
> > > > >> > > > > > > > that's
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > what we want to do
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > here).
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:07 AM, Syed Mushtaq
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > <javascript:;>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe with the current implementation
> of
> > > > >> > Snapshots
> > > > >> > > on
> > > > >> > > > > > > managed
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > storage
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > (SolidFire) the snapshots are never
> exported
> > > to
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > > > secondary
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > storage.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > While this solves the problem of having
> > > > snapshots
> > > > >> > > taking
> > > > >> > > > > > > forever
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > to get to sec storage, this leaves us
> with a
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > huge
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > liability if our primary storage goes
> down.
> > We
> > > > see
> > > > >> > > > > snapshots
> > > > >> > > > > > as
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > our recovery path because we store them in
> > > Swift
> > > > >> > which
> > > > >> > > is
> > > > >> > > > > > > > reliable
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and resilient to failures.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > With Storage snpashots our goal is to have
> > > > Volume
> > > > >> > > > snapshots
> > > > >> > > > > > > > always
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > backed up to secondary storage and Storage
> > > > >> Snapshots
> > > > >> > > stay
> > > > >> > > > > on
> > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > primary
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > storage.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > A provider could potentially mix both
> these
> > > and
> > > > >> solve
> > > > >> > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > problem
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > that you mentioned where you want to meet
> > > user's
> > > > >> > > > > expectation
> > > > >> > > > > > > of a
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > snapshot (ie backup to sec storage) while
> > > having
> > > > >> an
> > > > >> > > > ability
> > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > utilize faster sanpshots (i.e. on the
> > device)
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this clarifies things.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -Syed
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Paul Angus
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > HI guys,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could someone point me to the Jira bug
> of
> > FS
> > > > for
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > SAN-snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > feature
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 4.6 which is mentioned.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my discussions with users and
> > operators
> > > > >> around
> > > > >> > > > > > snapshots
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd make
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > following observations:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a. 'users' use snapshots as backups
> (both
> > > > >> long-term
> > > > >> > > and
> > > > >> > > > > > short
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > term)
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the expectation that they can use them
> for
> > > > >> recovery
> > > > >> > > if
> > > > >> > > > > > > > required.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > b. operators fall back to snapshots if
> > > > something
> > > > >> > has
> > > > >> > > > gone
> > > > >> > > > > > > wrong
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with primary storage.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > c. users sometimes want to be able to
> > export
> > > > >> > > snapshots
> > > > >> > > > as
> > > > >> > > > > > > well
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > create
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > new VMs from their snapshots
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > d. snapshots are a currently a massive
> > pain
> > > > for
> > > > >> > > > > operators,
> > > > >> > > > > > I
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know at
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > least
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > one public cloud who have snapshots
> which
> > > > take 2
> > > > >> > days
> > > > >> > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > complete.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > e. snapshots (as they are) can't be used
> > for
> > > > >> > multiple
> > > > >> > > > LVM
> > > > >> > > > > > > > disks.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the process Mike has used in the
> > > > >> SolidFire
> > > > >> > > > plugin
> > > > >> > > > > > > (only
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > moving
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > disk image to secondary storage when you
> > > > >> absolutely
> > > > >> > > > have
> > > > >> > > > > > to)
> > > > >> > > > > > > is
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a very
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > good
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and pragmatic solution. I wonder what
> > > problems
> > > > >> an
> > > > >> > > > > operator
> > > > >> > > > > > > > might
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > experience
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if they have an issue with a given
> primary
> > > > >> storage
> > > > >> > > pool
> > > > >> > > > > in
> > > > >> > > > > > a
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > cluster.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > (I
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know that that is REALLY unlikely in the
> > > > >> SolidFire
> > > > >> > > case
> > > > >> > > > > > Mike
> > > > >> > > > > > > :)
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) And
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > if
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the transfer from primary to secondary
> is
> > > > slow,
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > > time
> > > > >> > > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > being able
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > create a template or export the volume
> > will
> > > be
> > > > >> > slow.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So for me the issue is around making
> sure
> > > that
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > end
> > > > >> > > > > > users
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > expectations
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > are met (while improving the
> > > speed/efficiency
> > > > of
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > > back
> > > > >> > > > > > > end)
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [image: ShapeBlue] <
> > > http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > >> Paul
> > > > >> > > > Angus
> > > > >> > > > > > VP
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Technology , ShapeBlue
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > d: *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44 203 603
> > 0540*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>
> > > > >> > > > > > > |
> > > > >> > > > > > > > m:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *+44 7711 418784* <+44%207711%20418784>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > e: *paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;> | t:
> > > > >> > > > > > @cloudyangus*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > %20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus> | w:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *www.shapeblue.com* <
> > > http://www.shapeblue.com
> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a: 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden
> London
> > > WC2N
> > > > >> 4HS
> > > > >> > UK
> > > > >> > > > > Shape
> > > > >> > > > > > > > Blue
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ltd is a company incorporated in
> England &
> > > > >> Wales.
> > > > >> > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Services India LLP is a company
> > incorporated
> > > > in
> > > > >> > India
> > > > >> > > > and
> > > > >> > > > > > is
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > operated
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > under
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue
> > > Brasil
> > > > >> > > > > Consultoria
> > > > >> > > > > > > Ltda
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is a company incorporated in Brasil and
> is
> > > > >> operated
> > > > >> > > > under
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > license from Shape Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue
> SA
> > > Pty
> > > > >> Ltd
> > > > >> > is
> > > > >> > > a
> > > > >> > > > > > > company
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > registered by The Republic
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > South Africa and is traded under license
> > > from
> > > > >> Shape
> > > > >> > > > Blue
> > > > >> > > > > > Ltd.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a registered trademark.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This email and any attachments to it may
> > be
> > > > >> > > > confidential
> > > > >> > > > > > and
> > > > >> > > > > > > > are
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > intended
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > solely for the use of the individual to
> > whom
> > > > it
> > > > >> is
> > > > >> > > > > > addressed.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any views
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > or
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > opinions expressed are solely those of
> the
> > > > >> author
> > > > >> > and
> > > > >> > > > do
> > > > >> > > > > > not
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > necessarily
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or
> > related
> > > > >> > > companies.
> > > > >> > > > > If
> > > > >> > > > > > > you
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > are not
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > intended recipient of this email, you
> must
> > > > >> neither
> > > > >> > > take
> > > > >> > > > > any
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > action
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > based
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > upon its contents, nor copy or show it
> to
> > > > >> anyone.
> > > > >> > > > Please
> > > > >> > > > > > > > contact
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > sender
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you believe you have received this
> > email
> > > in
> > > > >> > error.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Pierre-Luc Dion [mailto:
> > > > >> pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>]
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 12:56 PM
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature]
> > Storage
> > > > >> > Snapshots
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea of introducing a new API:
> > > > >> StorageSnapshot
> > > > >> > > for
> > > > >> > > > > > > managed
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > storage
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the VolumeSnapshot default, or
> > > > expected,
> > > > >> > > > behavior
> > > > >> > > > > > is
> > > > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > archive snapshots into the Secondary
> > > Storage.
> > > > >> So a
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > StorageSnapshot API would be
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > snapshot that remain on the managed
> > storage
> > > > >> > > appliance.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quickly looking at the API doc and I
> don't
> > > > see a
> > > > >> > > strong
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > requirement for volume snapshots to be
> > moved
> > > > >> into
> > > > >> > > > > secondary
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > storage. So, maybe StorageSnapshot API
> is
> > > not
> > > > >> > useful,
> > > > >> > > > but
> > > > >> > > > > > > both
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > use cases are required. A snapshot that
> > > remain
> > > > >> on
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > > > > managed
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > storage, and another type of
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that end up into the secondary storage.
> > > Since
> > > > >> > you've
> > > > >> > > > > done a
> > > > >> > > > > > > lot
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > work,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > might easier to just add a parameter to
> > the
> > > > >> current
> > > > >> > > > > > snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > > > > API
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > would
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > trigger an extraction of the storage
> > > snapshot
> > > > >> into
> > > > >> > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > secondary
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > storage?
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > PL
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Mike
> > > > Tutkowski <
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that all sounds reasonable
> then
> > -
> > > > >> thanks!
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Syed
> > > > Mushtaq <
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > >> <javascript:;>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> You are correct Mike in terms of the
> > > > >> > requirements.
> > > > >> > > > One
> > > > >> > > > > > of
> > > > >> > > > > > > > our
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > earlier
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> iterations on this was to have an
> > > argument
> > > > to
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > > > create
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > API
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> which decides whether to backup the
> > > volume
> > > > to
> > > > >> > sec
> > > > >> > > > > > storage
> > > > >> > > > > > > > but
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> we realized it would make management
> of
> > > > >> > snapshots
> > > > >> > > > > quite
> > > > >> > > > > > > > messy
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> so we proposed a new api instead.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016, 8:29 PM Mike
> > > Tutkowski
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> <mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Hi,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Just to make sure I understand all
> the
> > > > >> > > requirements
> > > > >> > > > > > here:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 1) This relates only to managed
> > storage
> > > > (1:1
> > > > >> > > > mapping
> > > > >> > > > > > > > between
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> a virtual disk and a backend SAN
> > > volume).
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 2) We want to take the current
> > > (introduced
> > > > >> in
> > > > >> > > 4.6)
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> functionality, which creates a
> > snapshot
> > > on
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > SAN,
> > > > >> > > > > and
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> extend it via a config option (or
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> something) to not only take the SAN
> > > > >> snapshot,
> > > > >> > but
> > > > >> > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > copy
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> the underlying VHD (XenServer only)
> to
> > > > NFS.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 3) The SAN snapshot is always taken.
> > > It's
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > > backup
> > > > >> > > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > NFS
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> that is optional.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 4) Templates can be created from the
> > > > >> snapshot
> > > > >> > > > that's
> > > > >> > > > > on
> > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> SAN (already works).
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 5) CloudStack volumes can be created
> > > from
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > > > snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> that's on
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> SAN (already works as long as the
> new
> > > > >> > CloudStack
> > > > >> > > > > volume
> > > > >> > > > > > > > ends
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> up on the same primary storage).
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Would we have a need for a storage
> > > > snapshot
> > > > >> API
> > > > >> > > > then
> > > > >> > > > > or
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> would that just be the standard
> volume
> > > > >> snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > without
> > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> backup to
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > NFS?
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Thanks!
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Mike
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 5:24 PM, Syed
> > > > Mushtaq
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> <syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Is it possible to have both
> > > > functionalities
> > > > >> > > > > (snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > > on
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> SAN & Sec
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Storage) coexist? Because Ideally,
> we
> > > > would
> > > > >> > like
> > > > >> > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > have
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > both.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> For example, some of our customers
> > want
> > > > to
> > > > >> > > > implement
> > > > >> > > > > > > their
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> own backup strategies and do
> > encryption
> > > > to
> > > > >> > their
> > > > >> > > > > > backups
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> which is a perfect use case for
> > Storage
> > > > >> > Snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > while
> > > > >> > > > > > > our
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> other customers will still keep
> using
> > > the
> > > > >> > > standard
> > > > >> > > > > > > volume
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > snapshot.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> To keep things backward compatible,
> > we
> > > > can
> > > > >> > add a
> > > > >> > > > > > setting
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> which
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > says
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to not upload on secondary storage,
> > > > >> because,
> > > > >> > > after
> > > > >> > > > > > all,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > you
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> would take a SAN snapshot first
> when
> > > > doing
> > > > >> a
> > > > >> > > > Volume
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > Snapshot.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> You could stop the process there
> and
> > > not
> > > > do
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > > > > upload.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> What do you think about this
> > approach?
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Thanks,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> -Syed
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 4:25 PM,
> Mike
> > > > >> > Tutkowski <
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> So, this is just me thinking out
> > load
> > > > >> here,
> > > > >> > but
> > > > >> > > > if
> > > > >> > > > > a
> > > > >> > > > > > > > given
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> CloudStack cloud doesn't actually
> > need
> > > > to
> > > > >> > > provide
> > > > >> > > > > > both
> > > > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ability
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> to take a SAN snapshot and export
> it
> > > to
> > > > >> NFS
> > > > >> > (if
> > > > >> > > > > just
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> taking a SAN snapshot is OK), then
> > we
> > > > >> might
> > > > >> > be
> > > > >> > > > able
> > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > > get
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> away with no new
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > API
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> calls and simply implement a new
> > > custom
> > > > >> > > snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > > > strategy
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> and
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > data
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> motion strategy to handle the case
> > > where
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> cloud
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > does
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> want both a SAN snapshot and
> > > > >> exported-to-NFS
> > > > >> > > > > backup.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> In other words, the "default"
> > behavior
> > > > >> would
> > > > >> > be
> > > > >> > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > use
> > > > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> snapshot strategy and data motion
> > > > strategy
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > > > we
> > > > >> > > > > > > > already
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> have (the one that only takes a
> SAN
> > > > >> > snapshot).
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> If your CloudStack cloud, however,
> > > wants
> > > > >> to
> > > > >> > > take
> > > > >> > > > a
> > > > >> > > > > > SAN
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> snapshot and have the data
> exported
> > to
> > > > >> NFS,
> > > > >> > > then
> > > > >> > > > we
> > > > >> > > > > > > could
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> have you manipulate a Swing config
> > > file
> > > > to
> > > > >> > make
> > > > >> > > > use
> > > > >> > > > > > of
> > > > >> > > > > > > a
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> new snapshot strategy and data
> > motion
> > > > >> > strategy
> > > > >> > > > that
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> performs both of these
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > activities.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> This way, the old behavior is
> still
> > > the
> > > > >> > default
> > > > >> > > > for
> > > > >> > > > > > > > users,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> but CloudStack admins can change
> > this
> > > > >> > behavior
> > > > >> > > > via
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > configuration.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Thoughts?
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 11:55 AM,
> > Mike
> > > > >> > > Tutkowski <
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Right...I think we will need to
> > come
> > > up
> > > > >> > with a
> > > > >> > > > > > viable
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> upgrade path or some reasonable
> way
> > > for
> > > > >> them
> > > > >> > > to
> > > > >> > > > > move
> > > > >> > > > > > > > from
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> the old way to the new way (and
> > some
> > > > >> obvious
> > > > >> > > way
> > > > >> > > > > > that
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> they will know they need
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > do this).
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 11:45 AM,
> > Syed
> > > > >> > Mushtaq
> > > > >> > > <
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I'm not really sure about the
> > > upgrade
> > > > >> path
> > > > >> > > > > however,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> customers who are using 4.6 and
> > are
> > > > on a
> > > > >> > > > managed
> > > > >> > > > > > > > storage
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> would no longer have the same
> > > > >> functionality
> > > > >> > > > with
> > > > >> > > > > > > Volume
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Snapshots.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 1:43 PM,
> > Syed
> > > > >> > Mushtaq
> > > > >> > > <
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> So if I understand correctly,
> > > > currently
> > > > >> > > > taking a
> > > > >> > > > > > > > Volume
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Snapshots of a volume on a
> > managed
> > > > >> storage
> > > > >> > > > keeps
> > > > >> > > > > > it
> > > > >> > > > > > > on
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> the storage array. As a part of
> > > this
> > > > >> > > feature,
> > > > >> > > > we
> > > > >> > > > > > can
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> make sure
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Volume Snapshots on managed
> > storage
> > > > are
> > > > >> > > > uploaded
> > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> secondary storage. This would
> > make
> > > > the
> > > > >> > > Volume
> > > > >> > > > > > > Snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> feature behave the same
> > regardless
> > > of
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > > > storage
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> (managed or
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> non-managed) And, for utilizing
> > the
> > > > >> > > efficient
> > > > >> > > > > > > backend
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> storage
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > capabilities, we can use the new storage
> > > > >> snapshots
> > > > >> > > API.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 1:36 PM,
> > > Mike
> > > > >> > > > Tutkowski <
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > >> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Whatever we do here, we need
> to
> > > > have a
> > > > >> > plan
> > > > >> > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > deal
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> with the fact that we already
> > > have a
> > > > >> > > feature
> > > > >> > > > > (in
> > > > >> > > > > > > 4.6
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> later) that allows you to use
> > the
> > > > >> > existing
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> volume-snapshot APIs to
> create a
> > > > >> volume
> > > > >> > > > > snapshot
> > > > >> > > > > > > (for
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> managed
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> storage) that resides on a
> > backend
> > > > SAN
> > > > >> > > > (using a
> > > > >> > > > > > > > custom
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> snapshot strategy and a custom
> > > data
> > > > >> > motion
> > > > >> > > > > > > strategy).
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> If these new APIs go in, then
> > how
> > > > >> should
> > > > >> > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > original
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> implementation (present in 4.6
> > and
> > > > >> later)
> > > > >> > > be
> > > > >> > > > > > > changed?
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> If it
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> changed, how do we support
> > > customers
> > > > >> who
> > > > >> > > are
> > > > >> > > > > > > already
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> using
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> original volume-snapshot API
> to
> > > take
> > > > >> > > > snapshots
> > > > >> > > > > > on a
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> backend
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > SAN?
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Mike
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 11:27
> AM,
> > > > Will
> > > > >> > > > Stevens <
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> wstevens@cloudops.com
> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Will you be able to create a
> > > > Template
> > > > >> > > from a
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > StorageSnapshot?
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> If yes, will the template be
> > > stored
> > > > >> in
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > secondary
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> storage like normal templates
> > or
> > > > will
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > > > be
> > > > >> > > > > > > > handled
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> somehow on the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > vendor side?
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Will STEVENS*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Lead Developer
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *CloudOps* *| *Cloud
> Solutions
> > > > >> Experts
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|*
> > > Quebec
> > > > >> *|*
> > > > >> > > H3J
> > > > >> > > > > 1S6
> > > > >> > > > > > w
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> cloudops.com *|* tw
> @CloudOps_
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 1:22
> PM,
> > > > Syed
> > > > >> > > > Mushtaq <
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Will!!!
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 1:19
> > PM,
> > > > Will
> > > > >> > > > Stevens
> > > > >> > > > > <
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wstevens@cloudops.com
> > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I explicitly linked the
> > Design
> > > > >> Spec in
> > > > >> > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > Jira
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> ticket because it was not
> > clear
> > > > in
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > > > > 'mention'
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> section because it shows
> as a
> > > > page
> > > > >> > 'you
> > > > >> > > do
> > > > >> > > > > not
> > > > >> > > > > > > > have
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > permission to'.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> *Will STEVENS*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Lead Developer
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> *CloudOps* *| *Cloud
> > Solutions
> > > > >> Experts
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal
> *|*
> > > > Quebec
> > > > >> > *|*
> > > > >> > > > H3J
> > > > >> > > > > > 1S6
> > > > >> > > > > > > w
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> cloudops.com *|* tw
> > @CloudOps_
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 1:02
> > PM,
> > > > >> Syed
> > > > >> > > Ahmed
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> <sahmed@cloudops.com
> > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Design Spec:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Sto
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> rageSnapshot++API
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jira Ticket
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-9
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 27
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 8
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> We plan to propose a new
> set
> > > of
> > > > >> APIs
> > > > >> > to
> > > > >> > > > do
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots on managed
> storage
> > > > >> backends
> > > > >> > > > like
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > SolidFire.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Snapshots on current
> managed
> > > > >> storage
> > > > >> > > stay
> > > > >> > > > > on
> > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> device which is contrary
> to
> > > what
> > > > >> > > > CloudStack
> > > > >> > > > > > > calls
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > snpshots.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> But taking snapshots on
> > > storage
> > > > >> and
> > > > >> > > > keeping
> > > > >> > > > > > it
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> there has its own
> advantages
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> we would ideally like to
> > have
> > > > both
> > > > >> > ways
> > > > >> > > > of
> > > > >> > > > > > > doing
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots. This proposal
> > adds
> > > 4
> > > > >> new
> > > > >> > > APIs
> > > > >> > > > to
> > > > >> > > > > > > > create
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots on backend
> > storage.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guys think of
> > this
> > > > >> > > feature? I
> > > > >> > > > > > would
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> love to have some
> feedback.
> > I
> > > am
> > > > >> > > working
> > > > >> > > > on
> > > > >> > > > > > > > making
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the design
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > spec
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> more concrete but wanted
> to
> > > > have a
> > > > >> > high
> > > > >> > > > > level
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback first before
> > starting
> > > > to
> > > > >> > work
> > > > >> > > on
> > > > >> > > > > it.
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -Syed
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> --
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > > > >> SolidFire
> > > > >> > > Inc.*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> e:
> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > >> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Advancing the way the world
> uses
> > > the
> > > > >> > cloud
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> <
> > > > >> > > > > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >*™
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> *
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> --
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > > SolidFire
> > > > >> > Inc.*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > >> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Advancing the way the world uses
> > the
> > > > >> cloud
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> <
> > > > >> > > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > >> > > > > > > >*™*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> --
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > > SolidFire
> > > > >> Inc.*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Advancing the way the world uses
> the
> > > > cloud
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> <
> > > > >> > > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > >> > > > > > > >*™*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> --
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > SolidFire
> > > > >> Inc.*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Advancing the way the world uses the
> > > cloud
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> <
> > > > >> > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > >> > > > > > >*™*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> SolidFire
> > > > Inc.*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the
> > cloud
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > >> > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > >> > > > > >*™*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our
> > range
> > > of
> > > > >> > > > CloudStack
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > related
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > services:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > >> > http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//>
> > > > >> > > |
> > > > >> > > > > > > > CSForge –
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > rapid IaaS deployment framework <
> > > > >> > > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/csforge/
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Consulting
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/
> > > > >
> > > > >> |
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Software Engineering
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > >> > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Infrastructure Support
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > >> > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > |
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Bootcamp Training Courses
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire
> Inc.*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > >> > >*™*
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range of
> > > > >> CloudStack
> > > > >> > > > > related
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > services:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//
> > > > >
> > > > >> |
> > > > >> > > > > CSForge –
> > > > >> > > > > > > > rapid
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > IaaS deployment framework <
> > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/csforge/
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Consulting <
> > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > |
> > > > >> > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Software Engineering
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Infrastructure Support
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > |
> > > > >> > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Bootcamp Training Courses <
> > > > >> > > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range of
> > > > >> CloudStack
> > > > >> > > > related
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > services:
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
> > http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//
> > > >
> > > > |
> > > > >> > > > CSForge –
> > > > >> > > > > > > rapid
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > IaaS deployment framework <
> > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/csforge/>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Consulting <
> > > > >> > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/>
> > > > >> > > > > > > |
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Software Engineering
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Infrastructure Support
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/>
> > > > >> > |
> > > > >> > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Bootcamp Training Courses <
> > > > >> > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > --
> > > > >> > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > >> > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > >> > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com <javascript:;>
> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > >> > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > >> > > > > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> >*™*
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > --
> > > > >> > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > >> > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > >> > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com <javascript:;>
> > > > >> > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > >> > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > >> > > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > --
> > > > >> > > > Ian Rae
> > > > >> > > > CEO | PDG
> > > > >> > > > c: 514.944.4008
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > CloudOps | Cloud Infrastructure and Networking Solutions
> > > > >> > > > www.cloudops.com | 420 rue Guy | Montreal | Canada | H3J
> 1S6
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > --
> > > > >> > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > >> > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > >> > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > >> > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > >> > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > >> > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > o: 303.746.7302
> > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> >
>



--
*Mike Tutkowski*
*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
o: 303.746.7302
Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range of CloudStack related services:
IaaS Cloud Design & Build<http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//> | CSForge – rapid IaaS deployment framework<http://shapeblue.com/csforge/>
CloudStack Consulting<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/> | CloudStack Software Engineering<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
CloudStack Infrastructure Support<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/> | CloudStack Bootcamp Training Courses<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>

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