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From Syed Mushtaq <syed1.mush...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Propose][New Feature] Storage Snapshots
Date Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:15:05 GMT
I agree with Mike's concern about backward compatibility. We can add a
global flag which makes sure that the way volume snapshots work currently
on managed storage (stay on the device) is retained after upgrade. We can
then safely implement the Storage Snapshot API while making the Volume
Snpashot API move the snapshot to Secondary Storage.

Sounds good guys?

-Syed


On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Mike Tutkowski <mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> wrote:

> Here's what we have for snapshots for managed storage as of 4.6, Paul:
>
> 1. VM snapshots (no proposed changes to this).
>
> 2. Volume snapshots that do not end up on secondary storage, but rather are
> stored on a SAN (effectively storing snapshots on primary storage).
>
> Pierre-Luc is saying he'd like this for snapshots for managed storage:
>
> A. VM snapshots (no proposed changes to this).
>
> B. Volume snapshots that export to secondary storage.
>
> C. New: Storage snapshots that behave like 2 (above).
>
> I like Pierre-Luc's ideas there, but the problem is backward compatibility.
>
> If customers who were using managed storage with volume snapshots in 4.6
> were getting their snapshots put on a SAN, then in 4.9 - all of a sudden -
> their new snapshots are put on secondary storage (unless they explicitly
> change over to using the new Storage snapshots feature).
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 12:32 PM, Paul Angus <paul.angus@shapeblue.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Just to make sure I'm on the same page, are we talking about;
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-9278 ?
> >
> > The FS reads (to me) more like 1a + the possibility to export to
> secondary
> > storage if required?
> > Have I understood correctly?
> > I have seen [1a] implemented for VMware by NetApp in their beta
> CloudStack
> > plugin (pleased I can say that without Mike beating me up now). No
> changes
> > to the CloudStack API were required. (nb it didn't export to secondary
> > storage).
> >
> >
> >
> > 1. VM Snapshot (point-in-time hypervisor based snapshots)
> > 1a. SAN assisted VM snapshots (point-in-time hypervisor snapshot takes
> > place on transparently SAN to avoid performance issue in disk chains)
> > 2. SAN Snapshot (Storage Snapshot) - NEW
> > 3. Volume Snapshot (current old/slow transfer to secstorage)
> > 4. Backup - JUST AN IDEAL.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [image: ShapeBlue] <http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > Paul Angus
> > VP Technology ,  ShapeBlue
> > d:  *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44 203 603 0540*
> > <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>  |  m:
> > *+44 7711 418784* <+44%207711%20418784>
> > e:  *paul.angus@shapeblue.com | t: @cloudyangus*
> > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com%20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus>  |  w:
> > *www.shapeblue.com* <http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > a:  53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden London WC2N 4HS UK
> > Shape Blue Ltd is a company incorporated in England & Wales. ShapeBlue
> > Services India LLP is a company incorporated in India and is operated
> under
> > license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil Consultoria Ltda is a
> > company incorporated in Brasil and is operated under license from Shape
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> is
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> > This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended
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> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
> > Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 7:16 PM
> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature] Storage Snapshots
> >
> > Correct, Will.
> >
> > That Global Settings would only be for managed storage. Non-managed
> > (traditional) volume snapshots are completely un-impacted by this
> feature.
> >
> > If we need to sometimes keep the snapshots on the SAN and sometimes push
> > them to secondary storage, we'll need a more robust solution than Global
> > Settings, though.
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Will Stevens <wstevens@cloudops.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Sorry. I missed a bit of context when I responded. The global setting
> > > would be only for the managed storage case, currently being called
> > Storage
> > > Snapshots, and is only to determine if a copy is pushed to secondary
> > > storage right? The global setting would not change the behavior of the
> > > Volume Snapshots right?
> > >
> > > I was referring to the need for Volume Snapshots and Storage Snapshots
> to
> > > exist together. Disregard my comment. I caught up on context after I
> > > posted. My bad...
> > >
> > > *Will STEVENS*
> > > Lead Developer
> > >
> > > *CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
> > > 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6
> > > w cloudops.com *|* tw @CloudOps_
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey Will,
> > > >
> > > > Who's picking the behavior? Is it the cloud provider or the end user?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Will Stevens <wstevens@cloudops.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I don't think a global setting is a good option because we need
> both
> > > > > functionality to be available at the same time and for different
> use
> > > > cases
> > > > > to be able to pick which they choose.
> > > > >
> > > > > *Will STEVENS*
> > > > > Lead Developer
> > > > >
> > > > > *CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
> > > > > 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6
> > > > > w cloudops.com *|* tw @CloudOps_
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Now that I re-read your e-mail, it dawned on me: The end-user
> > doesn't
> > > > > care
> > > > > > where the snapshot is.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If that's true, then we should perhaps control this via Global
> > > Settings
> > > > > or
> > > > > > something.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > It's not ideal - true, but it does allow us to be backward
> > > > compatible.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have other ideas, though, about how to maintain backward
> > > > > > > compatibility, I'm definitely open to hear them.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Syed Mushtaq <
> > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Hi Mike,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Adding a flag to createSnapshot was the first and the most
> > obvious
> > > > > thing
> > > > > > >> that came to our minds. The problem that I had with this was
> > that:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 1) I feel it is exposing something to the end user that is
> > > internal
> > > > to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> cloud.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 2) We have to follow two different ways of restore/deletion in
> > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > >> code path depending on where the Snapshot resides which I find
> > > kind
> > > > > of a
> > > > > > >> bad design.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> But if exposing a archive flag to the end user is acceptable
> > then
> > > we
> > > > > can
> > > > > > >> definitely use this instead of adding the StorageSnapshot API
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > > > >> -Syed
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > > >> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > Hi Pierre-Luc,
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > My recommendation would be this:
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > Add an "archive" flag to the current volume-snapshot API.
> Its
> > > > > default
> > > > > > >> would
> > > > > > >> > be "false" because that would be backward compatible with
> how
> > > 4.6
> > > > > has
> > > > > > >> > volume snapshots implemented (i.e. they stay on the SAN in
> > 4.6,
> > > > 4.7,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > >> > 4.8).
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > If you set archive=true, then we would perform a background
> > > > > migration
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > >> > the snapshot from the SAN to the secondary storage (then
> > delete
> > > > the
> > > > > > SAN
> > > > > > >> > snapshot).
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > That archive parameter would only be valid for managed
> > storage.
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > Sound reasonable?
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > Also, a VM snapshot that includes disks provided by managed
> > > > storage
> > > > > > >> should
> > > > > > >> > work.
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > Talk to you later,
> > > > > > >> > Mike
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Pierre-Luc Dion <
> > > > pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > > Mike,
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > In terms of API's, would you prefer introducing a
> parameter
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> > existing
> > > > > > >> > > VolumeSnapshot, example: extract={true|false} with a
> > > default
> > > > > > value
> > > > > > >> of
> > > > > > >> > > true which would extract snapshot into the secondary
> > storage,
> > > > > which
> > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > >> > > current default behavior. Then for SAN snapshot that
> remain
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> SAN we
> > > > > > >> > > would just set "extract=false" ? as oppose to create a new
> > > > > > >> > > StorageSnapshot API ?
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > Paul,
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > From what I'm seeing so far, we can't do a VM-snapshot
> when
> > > > using
> > > > > > >> managed
> > > > > > >> > > storage for VM having more than one Volume. For the reason
> > > that
> > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > are performed outside of the hypervisor awareness and
> > > > > > asynchronously.
> > > > > > >> If
> > > > > > >> > > someone have a way to address that, it would make thinks
> > much
> > > > more
> > > > > > >> > > attractive.
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Ian Rae <
> irae@cloudops.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > > I think a service provider backup scenario is more
> likely
> > to
> > > > > take
> > > > > > >> > > advantage
> > > > > > >> > > > of SAN snapshot. There are a few reasons for this.
> > > Traditional
> > > > > > >> backups
> > > > > > >> > > > involve access to the file system, and there is an
> > > expectation
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > >> > this
> > > > > > >> > > > can be done with reasonably short time frames without
> > > > negatively
> > > > > > >> > > impacting
> > > > > > >> > > > VM performance, and that the backup orchestrator can
> apply
> > > > > various
> > > > > > >> > logic
> > > > > > >> > > > and or transformations to the data (compress, encrypt,
> > > deltas
> > > > > > >> etc...).
> > > > > > >> > > > While it is true that one could apply a backup process
> to
> > a
> > > > > cloud
> > > > > > >> > > snapshot,
> > > > > > >> > > > this would be slow and inefficient requiring the data to
> > be
> > > > > moved
> > > > > > >> > several
> > > > > > >> > > > times and there are some major bottlenecks with cloud
> > > > snapshots.
> > > > > > >> With a
> > > > > > >> > > > cloud snapshot - there seems to be no reasonable
> > expectation
> > > > of
> > > > > > >> being
> > > > > > >> > > able
> > > > > > >> > > > to do differential snapshots (I think this depends on
> the
> > > > > > >> hypervisor)
> > > > > > >> > and
> > > > > > >> > > > if you do differential snapshots this will make file
> > backups
> > > > > from
> > > > > > >> those
> > > > > > >> > > > snapshots even more complicated to orchestrate.
> > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > Suspect there needs to be a different thread on how to
> > > better
> > > > > > enable
> > > > > > >> > > > backups, as a service. As per Paul's suggestion, but it
> > is a
> > > > > > related
> > > > > > >> > > > workflow so relevant to this discussion.
> > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > Ian
> > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > On Monday, February 8, 2016, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > > >> > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com>
> > > > > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > To me it sounds like number two and number three are
> > > > different
> > > > > > >> uses
> > > > > > >> > for
> > > > > > >> > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > same "thing"(which is totally fine).
> > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > As for taking a fast SAN snapshot and exporting it
> > > > > > >> asynchronously, do
> > > > > > >> > > we
> > > > > > >> > > > > see the SSVM as performing the export?
> > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > To be backwards compatible with what we have in 4.6
> and
> > > > later
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > >> > > volume
> > > > > > >> > > > > snapshots for managed storage, I think it might be
> > easier
> > > if
> > > > > we
> > > > > > >> pass
> > > > > > >> > > in a
> > > > > > >> > > > > flag that says whether or not to archive the SAN
> > snapshot
> > > > > > (which,
> > > > > > >> I
> > > > > > >> > > > think,
> > > > > > >> > > > > is something that you suggested, as well, Pierre-Luc).
> > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > On Monday, February 8, 2016, Pierre-Luc Dion <
> > > > > > pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > The reason behind the creation of a SAN snapshot
> which
> > > is
> > > > > > >> exported
> > > > > > >> > > into
> > > > > > >> > > > > > secondary storage, is because creating a copy of the
> > > .VHD
> > > > > > >> directly
> > > > > > >> > > > would
> > > > > > >> > > > > > impact uptime of the VM as creating that copy take
> > lots
> > > of
> > > > > > time.
> > > > > > >> > Has
> > > > > > >> > > > > oppose
> > > > > > >> > > > > > to a SAN snapshot that is close to instantaneous
> which
> > > can
> > > > > > >> > afterward
> > > > > > >> > > be
> > > > > > >> > > > > > clone into Secondary Storage asynchronously.
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > I would suspect an extracted VolumeSnapshot taken
> > from a
> > > > SAN
> > > > > > >> > snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > could
> > > > > > >> > > > > > have is SAN snapshot deleted to avoid duplica and
> > space
> > > > > > >> consumption
> > > > > > >> > > on
> > > > > > >> > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > Primary Storage side.
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > I see 3 definitions in our current discussion
> > regarding
> > > > the
> > > > > > term
> > > > > > >> > > > snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > > (these are not official terminology but by own
> > > > > interpretation
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > >> > > them):
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > 1. *Snapshot* (AKA: Storage Snapshot / Mike's
> > definition
> > > > of
> > > > > a
> > > > > > >> > > > snapshot):
> > > > > > >> > > > > > it's a volume snapshot at the storage level, point
> in
> > > time
> > > > > of
> > > > > > >> your
> > > > > > >> > > > data.
> > > > > > >> > > > > it
> > > > > > >> > > > > > reside on the primary storage. Useful and efficient
> > for
> > > > > > software
> > > > > > >> > side
> > > > > > >> > > > > > incident.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > 2. *Cloud Snapshot *( AKA: CloudStack
> VolumeSnapshot/
> > > > cloud
> > > > > > >> backup
> > > > > > >> > > > aws-S3
> > > > > > >> > > > > > style ): Point in time copy of the Virtual Disk that
> > > > reside
> > > > > > on a
> > > > > > >> > > > > different
> > > > > > >> > > > > > storage array then the original Volume. Facilitate
> > data
> > > > > > >> migration
> > > > > > >> > > > between
> > > > > > >> > > > > > clusters and, in case of primary storage incident,
> > > Volume
> > > > > > >> snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > are
> > > > > > >> > > > > not
> > > > > > >> > > > > > impacted and can be reuse.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > 3. *Backup*: Archival of your Virtual-machines data
> > that
> > > > > also
> > > > > > >> > > validate
> > > > > > >> > > > > data
> > > > > > >> > > > > > integrity, provide a storage efficient archiving
> > method
> > > > and
> > > > > an
> > > > > > >> > > > > independent
> > > > > > >> > > > > > way to restore your data in case of an major
> > > > infrastructure
> > > > > > >> > disaster.
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > PL
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com <javascript:;>
> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > So, let's see if I currently follow the
> > requirements:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > * Augment volume snapshots for managed storage to
> > > > > > >> conditionally
> > > > > > >> > > > export
> > > > > > >> > > > > > data
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > to NFS. The current process of taking a snapshot
> on
> > > the
> > > > > SAN
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > >> > > fine,
> > > > > > >> > > > > but
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > we'd like the option to export the data to NFS, as
> > > well.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Questions:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Once the data has been exported to NFS, do we keep
> > the
> > > > SAN
> > > > > > >> > snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > or
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > delete it?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > If we are deleting the SAN snapshot, then why
> don't
> > we
> > > > > just
> > > > > > >> copy
> > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > VHD
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > from primary to secondary the way we do today for
> > > > > > non-managed
> > > > > > >> > (i.e.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > traditional) storage? Why create a SAN snapshot in
> > > that
> > > > > > >> scenario?
> > > > > > >> > > > > Perhaps
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > to have the SSVM mount and perform the VHD copy to
> > > > > secondary
> > > > > > >> > > storage
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > instead of a XenServer host?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks for the clarification.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > By the way, to me a backup is when you copy data
> > from
> > > > one
> > > > > > >> storage
> > > > > > >> > > > > system
> > > > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > another (regardless of features, if any, to
> restore
> > > the
> > > > > data
> > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > future). A snapshot is a point-in-time view of the
> > > data
> > > > > of a
> > > > > > >> > volume
> > > > > > >> > > > and
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > it's stored on the same storage system as the
> > volume.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Pierre-Luc Dion <
> > > > > > >> > > pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > That's fun to see that discussion happening. I
> > 100%
> > > > > agree
> > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > >> > > > Paul's
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > points of view. VolumeSnapshot are not a backup,
> > > but I
> > > > > do
> > > > > > >> > > consider
> > > > > > >> > > > > them
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > as
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > a safety vest against Primary Storage failure,
> > > because
> > > > > > >> failure
> > > > > > >> > > > append
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > :-( .
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The current proposal around snapshots that
> reside
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> > primary
> > > > > > >> > > > > > storage
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > snapshots that end in the Secondary Storage is
> not
> > > to
> > > > > > >> address
> > > > > > >> > > any
> > > > > > >> > > > > kind
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > backups requirement because a snapshot is not a
> > > > backup,
> > > > > > >> event
> > > > > > >> > an
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > extracted
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > VM snapshot.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The main idea, and again this is for managed
> > > storage;
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 1. StorageSnapshotAPI: Provide storage side
> > snapshot
> > > > > > >> capability
> > > > > > >> > > for
> > > > > > >> > > > > > fast
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > response time that support rollback to previous
> > > > > timestamp,
> > > > > > >> > create
> > > > > > >> > > > new
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > volume and maybe create template.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > not required to be a new API if the work is
> > > > already
> > > > > > >> done, I
> > > > > > >> > > > think
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > is a different behaviors than the user
> expectation
> > > of
> > > > a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > volume-snapshot.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 2. VolumeSnapshotAPI: Provide current cloudstack
> > > > > behavior
> > > > > > >> that
> > > > > > >> > > > create
> > > > > > >> > > > > > an
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > extraction of a volume into SecondaryStorage
> which
> > > can
> > > > > be
> > > > > > >> reuse
> > > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > create a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > new volume into another Primary Storage. This
> type
> > > of
> > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > is a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > slow
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > job since yes it would have to copy the full
> > volume
> > > > size
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > Secondary
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > storage.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > PL
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Syed Mushtaq <
> > > > > > >> > > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I think I share you view on the 'Ideal world'.
> > > > Backup
> > > > > > (via
> > > > > > >> > > Volume
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Snapshots) is a huge bottleneck in Cloudstack.
> > > This
> > > > is
> > > > > > >> > > amplified
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > especially
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > when you have a object storage as your
> secondary
> > > > > storage
> > > > > > >> > > because
> > > > > > >> > > > it
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > requires two copies (one to an NFS staging
> area
> > > and
> > > > > from
> > > > > > >> > there
> > > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > object
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > storage). And not to mention that all these
> > copies
> > > > are
> > > > > > >> > > consuming
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > hypervisor
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > resources. Xenserver's Dom0 is also a huge
> > > > bottleneck
> > > > > as
> > > > > > >> all
> > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Network
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > and I/O flow through it. So our intention of
> > > > proposing
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > "Storage
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Snapshots" is to give a better way of achiving
> > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > >> > while
> > > > > > >> > > > > still
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > keeping the original definition of volume
> > > snpashots
> > > > > (ie
> > > > > > >> > upload
> > > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > sec
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > storage).
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > But as Erik pointed out volume snapshots are
> not
> > > > > > backups.
> > > > > > >> > They
> > > > > > >> > > > > don't
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > work
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > form multi-disk LVM volume groups and dynamic
> > > > disks. I
> > > > > > am
> > > > > > >> all
> > > > > > >> > > in
> > > > > > >> > > > > for
> > > > > > >> > > > > > a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > better backup solution which handles these use
> > > cases
> > > > > and
> > > > > > >> > > utilizes
> > > > > > >> > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > storage's advanced features.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Paul Angus <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In the beginning... there were CloudStack
> > > > snapshots
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > >> > they
> > > > > > >> > > > were
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > actually
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > volume snapshots not hypervisor
> point-in-time
> > > > > > snapshots.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Then VM snapshots were created (which are
> > > > > > point-in-time
> > > > > > >> > > > > hypervisor
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > snapshots) and we started referring to the
> > > > original
> > > > > > >> > snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > > as
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > volume
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > snapshots.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > CloudStack does not offer 'backups', but
> many
> > > > people
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > >> > > volume
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > as backups. However you can't in-place
> restore
> > > > > volume
> > > > > > >> > > snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > > > and
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > if
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > have a VM with multiple volumes, the volume
> > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > >> must
> > > > > > >> > be
> > > > > > >> > > > > done
> > > > > > >> > > > > > in
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > series, meaning that the state across all of
> > the
> > > > > > >> volumes is
> > > > > > >> > > > > > unlikely
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > consistent.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > 'Actual Backups' would enable all of the
> > restore
> > > > > > options
> > > > > > >> > > which
> > > > > > >> > > > > > users
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > might
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > expect as well options as to where they
> might
> > be
> > > > > > >> stored. In
> > > > > > >> > > my
> > > > > > >> > > > > > ideal
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > world
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > they would also be able to leverage back-end
> > > > > hardware
> > > > > > >> (such
> > > > > > >> > > as
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Solidfire,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > NetApp etc :) ) and software such as Veeam,
> > > > > Commvault
> > > > > > >> etc
> > > > > > >> > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > accelerate
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > process.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > [image: ShapeBlue] <
> http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Paul Angus
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > VP Technology , ShapeBlue
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > d: *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44 203 603 0540*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > >
> <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>
> > > |
> > > > > > >> > > > > m:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *+44 7711 418784* <+44%207711%20418784>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > e: *paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > |
> > > > > > >> > > > > t: @cloudyangus*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>%20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > | w:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *www.shapeblue.com* <
> http://www.shapeblue.com
> > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > a: 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden London
> WC2N
> > > > 4HS
> > > > > UK
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Shape Blue Ltd is a company incorporated in
> > > > England
> > > > > &
> > > > > > >> > Wales.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Services India LLP is a company incorporated
> > in
> > > > > India
> > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > >> > is
> > > > > > >> > > > > > operated
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > under
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue
> Brasil
> > > > > > >> Consultoria
> > > > > > >> > > Ltda
> > > > > > >> > > > > is
> > > > > > >> > > > > > a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > company incorporated in Brasil and is
> operated
> > > > under
> > > > > > >> > license
> > > > > > >> > > > from
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Shape
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company
> > > > > registered
> > > > > > >> by
> > > > > > >> > The
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Republic
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > South Africa and is traded under license
> from
> > > > Shape
> > > > > > Blue
> > > > > > >> > Ltd.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > a registered trademark.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > This email and any attachments to it may be
> > > > > > confidential
> > > > > > >> > and
> > > > > > >> > > > are
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > intended
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > solely for the use of the individual to whom
> > it
> > > is
> > > > > > >> > addressed.
> > > > > > >> > > > Any
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > views
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > opinions expressed are solely those of the
> > > author
> > > > > and
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > >> > not
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > necessarily
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or related
> > > > > > companies.
> > > > > > >> If
> > > > > > >> > > you
> > > > > > >> > > > > are
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > intended recipient of this email, you must
> > > neither
> > > > > > take
> > > > > > >> any
> > > > > > >> > > > > action
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > based
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > upon its contents, nor copy or show it to
> > > anyone.
> > > > > > Please
> > > > > > >> > > > contact
> > > > > > >> > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > sender
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > if you believe you have received this email
> in
> > > > > error.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > From: Syed Mushtaq [mailto:
> > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;> <javascript:;>]
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 4:58 PM
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature] Storage
> > > > > Snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Paul,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > When you say actual backups, how would it be
> > > > > different
> > > > > > >> from
> > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Volume
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Snapshots that exist currently. My
> > understanding
> > > > is
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > >> > > > Backups
> > > > > > >> > > > > > end
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > up
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sec Storage whereas Snapshots are just a
> > > > > point-in-time
> > > > > > >> > state
> > > > > > >> > > of
> > > > > > >> > > > > > your
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > volume
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > which can be restored back correct?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -Syed
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Paul Angus
> <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Syed,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > As I understand it, the SolidFire plugin
> > will
> > > > > export
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > secondary storage if the user requests a
> > > > template
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > wants to download the snapshot from the
> > cloud.
> > > > > This
> > > > > > >> is a
> > > > > > >> > > > good,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > pragmatic approach and yes Mike the
> > SolidFire
> > > > > > storage
> > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > >> > > > super
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > reliable and snapshots on SolidFire arrays
> > > take
> > > > up
> > > > > > >> next
> > > > > > >> > to
> > > > > > >> > > no
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > space.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > BUT I think that we are talking about a
> more
> > > > > general
> > > > > > >> > > purpose
> > > > > > >> > > > > API,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > other storage systems may not be as
> awesome
> > as
> > > > > > Mike's.
> > > > > > >> > > That's
> > > > > > >> > > > > my
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > concern. Also, the time to transfer for
> say
> > > 1TB
> > > > to
> > > > > > >> move
> > > > > > >> > > from
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > primary
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > to sec storage and then create a VM
> template
> > > out
> > > > > of
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > >> > may
> > > > > > >> > > be
> > > > > > >> > > > > too
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > long
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > for users.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > @Mike I don’t think 'we' use the term
> volume
> > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > >> for
> > > > > > >> > > > > backup,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > just that users want to do backups and a
> > > volume
> > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > > >> > is
> > > > > > >> > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > type of snapshot that copies the disk
> > > elsewhere
> > > > > and
> > > > > > >> can
> > > > > > >> > be
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > scheduled.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I'm 'pondering' the implications of
> enabling
> > > > > actual
> > > > > > >> > backups
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > (through
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > recognised backup providers) and the user
> > > > > > requirements
> > > > > > >> > > around
> > > > > > >> > > > > > them
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > (particularly restoration use cases) as a
> > > > separate
> > > > > > >> thread
> > > > > > >> > > of
> > > > > > >> > > > > > work.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [image: ShapeBlue] <
> > http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > > Paul
> > > > > > >> Angus
> > > > > > >> > > VP
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Technology
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > , ShapeBlue
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > d: *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44 203 603
> 0540*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > >
> <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>
> > > > > > >> > > > |
> > > > > > >> > > > > m:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > *+44 7711 418784* <+44%207711%20418784>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > e: *paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > <javascript:;> |
> > > > > > >> > > > > t: @cloudyangus*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > %20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus> | w:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > *www.shapeblue.com* <
> > http://www.shapeblue.com
> > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > a: 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden London
> > WC2N
> > > > 4HS
> > > > > > UK
> > > > > > >> > Shape
> > > > > > >> > > > > Blue
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Ltd
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > is a company incorporated in England &
> > Wales.
> > > > > > >> ShapeBlue
> > > > > > >> > > > > Services
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > India
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > LLP is a company incorporated in India and
> > is
> > > > > > operated
> > > > > > >> > > under
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > license
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil
> > > > Consultoria
> > > > > > >> Ltda
> > > > > > >> > is
> > > > > > >> > > a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > company
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > incorporated in Brasil and is operated
> under
> > > > > license
> > > > > > >> from
> > > > > > >> > > > Shape
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Blue
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company
> > > > registered
> > > > > by
> > > > > > >> The
> > > > > > >> > > > > Republic
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > South Africa and is traded under license
> > from
> > > > > Shape
> > > > > > >> Blue
> > > > > > >> > > Ltd.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ShapeBlue is a registered trademark.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > This email and any attachments to it may
> be
> > > > > > >> confidential
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> > Blue
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> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > From: Syed Mushtaq [mailto:
> > > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>]
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: 05 February 2016 15:31
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature]
> Storage
> > > > > > Snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I think the terminology confusion comes
> from
> > > AWS
> > > > > > where
> > > > > > >> > they
> > > > > > >> > > > do
> > > > > > >> > > > > > EBS
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > snapshots backed up to S3 and CloudStack
> > sort
> > > of
> > > > > > >> followed
> > > > > > >> > > > that.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > And
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > an end user who is oblivious to the
> > internals
> > > of
> > > > > my
> > > > > > >> > > provider,
> > > > > > >> > > > > my
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > expectation would be something similar to
> > what
> > > > AWS
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > >> > > is
> > > > > > >> > > > > my
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > biggest reference point.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > To your point Mike, I agree that a Primary
> > > > Storage
> > > > > > >> > failure
> > > > > > >> > > on
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > SolidFire is unlikely, there are other
> > > > motivations
> > > > > > >> for us
> > > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > push
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > data
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > to secondary storage. Primary storage
> > (atleast
> > > > for
> > > > > > us)
> > > > > > >> > > costs
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > around 3
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > times as much as secondary storage and
> > > snapshots
> > > > > on
> > > > > > >> > primary
> > > > > > >> > > > > > storage
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > are rarely used (especially for some of
> our
> > > > > > customers
> > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > >> > > do
> > > > > > >> > > > > > daily
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > backups).
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Mike
> > > Tutkowski
> > > > <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the weirdness is around
> > terminology.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > For most systems I've worked on, a
> > snapshot
> > > > and
> > > > > a
> > > > > > >> > backup
> > > > > > >> > > > are
> > > > > > >> > > > > > two
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > completely different things (but
> > CloudStack
> > > > has
> > > > > > >> > > > traditionally
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > used
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the term "volume snapshot" to mean
> > backup).
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > I will put in a SolidFire "plug" here
> and
> > > say,
> > > > > > >> though,
> > > > > > >> > > that
> > > > > > >> > > > > if
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > your
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > primary storage is running on SolidFire
> > that
> > > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > >> > > unlikely
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > you'll
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > encounter an issue where your primary
> > > storage
> > > > > goes
> > > > > > >> > > offline
> > > > > > >> > > > > (and
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > you'll even maintain your performance
> > > > guarantees
> > > > > > >> during
> > > > > > >> > > > > failure
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > scenarios and upgrades, as well). That
> > being
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> case,
> > > > > > >> > it
> > > > > > >> > > > is
> > > > > > >> > > > > > less
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > useful to require a backup to Swift (but
> > > it's
> > > > > > >> perfectly
> > > > > > >> > > OK
> > > > > > >> > > > if
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > that's
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > what we want to do
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > here).
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:07 AM, Syed
> > Mushtaq
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe with the current
> > implementation
> > > of
> > > > > > >> > Snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > on
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > managed
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > storage
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > (SolidFire) the snapshots are never
> > > exported
> > > > > to
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> > > > > secondary
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > storage.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > While this solves the problem of
> having
> > > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > taking
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > forever
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > to get to sec storage, this leaves us
> > > with a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > huge
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > liability if our primary storage goes
> > > down.
> > > > We
> > > > > > see
> > > > > > >> > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > > > > as
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > our recovery path because we store
> them
> > in
> > > > > Swift
> > > > > > >> > which
> > > > > > >> > > is
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > reliable
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and resilient to failures.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > With Storage snpashots our goal is to
> > have
> > > > > > Volume
> > > > > > >> > > > snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > always
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > backed up to secondary storage and
> > Storage
> > > > > > >> Snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > stay
> > > > > > >> > > > > on
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > primary
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > storage.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > A provider could potentially mix both
> > > these
> > > > > and
> > > > > > >> solve
> > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > problem
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > that you mentioned where you want to
> > meet
> > > > > user's
> > > > > > >> > > > > expectation
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > of a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > snapshot (ie backup to sec storage)
> > while
> > > > > having
> > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > >> > > > ability
> > > > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > utilize faster sanpshots (i.e. on the
> > > > device)
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this clarifies things.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -Syed
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Paul
> > Angus
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > HI guys,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could someone point me to the Jira
> bug
> > > of
> > > > FS
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > SAN-snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > feature
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 4.6 which is mentioned.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my discussions with users and
> > > > operators
> > > > > > >> around
> > > > > > >> > > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd make
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > following observations:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a. 'users' use snapshots as backups
> > > (both
> > > > > > >> long-term
> > > > > > >> > > and
> > > > > > >> > > > > > short
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > term)
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the expectation that they can use
> them
> > > for
> > > > > > >> recovery
> > > > > > >> > > if
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > required.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > b. operators fall back to snapshots
> if
> > > > > > something
> > > > > > >> > has
> > > > > > >> > > > gone
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > wrong
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with primary storage.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > c. users sometimes want to be able
> to
> > > > export
> > > > > > >> > > snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > > as
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > well
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > create
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > new VMs from their snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > d. snapshots are a currently a
> massive
> > > > pain
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > >> > > > > operators,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > I
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know at
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > least
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > one public cloud who have snapshots
> > > which
> > > > > > take 2
> > > > > > >> > days
> > > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > complete.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > e. snapshots (as they are) can't be
> > used
> > > > for
> > > > > > >> > multiple
> > > > > > >> > > > LVM
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > disks.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the process Mike has used in
> > the
> > > > > > >> SolidFire
> > > > > > >> > > > plugin
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > (only
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > moving
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > disk image to secondary storage when
> > you
> > > > > > >> absolutely
> > > > > > >> > > > have
> > > > > > >> > > > > > to)
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a very
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > good
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and pragmatic solution. I wonder
> what
> > > > > problems
> > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > >> > > > > operator
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > might
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > experience
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if they have an issue with a given
> > > primary
> > > > > > >> storage
> > > > > > >> > > pool
> > > > > > >> > > > > in
> > > > > > >> > > > > > a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > cluster.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > (I
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know that that is REALLY unlikely in
> > the
> > > > > > >> SolidFire
> > > > > > >> > > case
> > > > > > >> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) And
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the transfer from primary to
> secondary
> > > is
> > > > > > slow,
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> > > > time
> > > > > > >> > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > being able
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > create a template or export the
> volume
> > > > will
> > > > > be
> > > > > > >> > slow.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So for me the issue is around making
> > > sure
> > > > > that
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> > > end
> > > > > > >> > > > > > users
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > expectations
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > are met (while improving the
> > > > > speed/efficiency
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > >> > > > back
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > end)
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [image: ShapeBlue] <
> > > > > http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > > > >> Paul
> > > > > > >> > > > Angus
> > > > > > >> > > > > > VP
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Technology , ShapeBlue
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > d: *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44 203
> 603
> > > > 0540*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > |
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > m:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *+44 7711 418784*
> > <+44%207711%20418784>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > e: *paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;> | t:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > @cloudyangus*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > %20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus> | w:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *www.shapeblue.com* <
> > > > > http://www.shapeblue.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a: 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden
> > > London
> > > > > WC2N
> > > > > > >> 4HS
> > > > > > >> > UK
> > > > > > >> > > > > Shape
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Blue
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ltd is a company incorporated in
> > > England &
> > > > > > >> Wales.
> > > > > > >> > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Services India LLP is a company
> > > > incorporated
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > >> > India
> > > > > > >> > > > and
> > > > > > >> > > > > > is
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > operated
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > under
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape
> > Blue
> > > > > Brasil
> > > > > > >> > > > > Consultoria
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Ltda
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is a company incorporated in Brasil
> > and
> > > is
> > > > > > >> operated
> > > > > > >> > > > under
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > license from Shape Blue Ltd.
> ShapeBlue
> > > SA
> > > > > Pty
> > > > > > >> Ltd
> > > > > > >> > is
> > > > > > >> > > a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > company
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > registered by The Republic
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> > license
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> > > > > > >> > > > Blue
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> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This email and any attachments to it
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> > to
> > > > whom
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > >> > > > > > addressed.
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> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > opinions expressed are solely those
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > >> author
> > > > > > >> > and
> > > > > > >> > > > do
> > > > > > >> > > > > > not
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > necessarily
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or
> > > > related
> > > > > > >> > > companies.
> > > > > > >> > > > > If
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > are not
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> you
> > > must
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> > > > > > >> > > take
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> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > based
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > upon its contents, nor copy or show
> it
> > > to
> > > > > > >> anyone.
> > > > > > >> > > > Please
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > contact
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > sender
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you believe you have received
> this
> > > > email
> > > > > in
> > > > > > >> > error.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Pierre-Luc Dion [mailto:
> > > > > > >> pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>]
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 12:56
> > PM
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature]
> > > > Storage
> > > > > > >> > Snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea of introducing a new API:
> > > > > > >> StorageSnapshot
> > > > > > >> > > for
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > managed
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > storage
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the VolumeSnapshot default,
> or
> > > > > > expected,
> > > > > > >> > > > behavior
> > > > > > >> > > > > > is
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > archive snapshots into the Secondary
> > > > > Storage.
> > > > > > >> So a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > StorageSnapshot API would be
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > snapshot that remain on the managed
> > > > storage
> > > > > > >> > > appliance.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quickly looking at the API doc and I
> > > don't
> > > > > > see a
> > > > > > >> > > strong
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > requirement for volume snapshots to
> be
> > > > moved
> > > > > > >> into
> > > > > > >> > > > > secondary
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > storage. So, maybe StorageSnapshot
> API
> > > is
> > > > > not
> > > > > > >> > useful,
> > > > > > >> > > > but
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > both
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > use cases are required. A snapshot
> > that
> > > > > remain
> > > > > > >> on
> > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > managed
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > storage, and another type of
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that end up into the secondary
> > storage.
> > > > > Since
> > > > > > >> > you've
> > > > > > >> > > > > done a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > lot
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > work,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > might easier to just add a parameter
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> current
> > > > > > >> > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > API
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > would
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > trigger an extraction of the storage
> > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > >> into
> > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > secondary
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > storage?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > PL
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Mike
> > > > > > Tutkowski <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that all sounds reasonable
> > > then
> > > > -
> > > > > > >> thanks!
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 6:52 PM,
> Syed
> > > > > > Mushtaq <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> You are correct Mike in terms of
> > the
> > > > > > >> > requirements.
> > > > > > >> > > > One
> > > > > > >> > > > > > of
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > our
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > earlier
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> iterations on this was to have an
> > > > > argument
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > create
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > API
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> which decides whether to backup
> the
> > > > > volume
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > sec
> > > > > > >> > > > > > storage
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> we realized it would make
> > management
> > > of
> > > > > > >> > snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > > > quite
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > messy
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> so we proposed a new api instead.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016, 8:29 PM Mike
> > > > > Tutkowski
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> <mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Hi,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Just to make sure I understand
> all
> > > the
> > > > > > >> > > requirements
> > > > > > >> > > > > > here:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 1) This relates only to managed
> > > > storage
> > > > > > (1:1
> > > > > > >> > > > mapping
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > between
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> a virtual disk and a backend SAN
> > > > > volume).
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 2) We want to take the current
> > > > > (introduced
> > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > >> > > 4.6)
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> functionality, which creates a
> > > > snapshot
> > > > > on
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> > > SAN,
> > > > > > >> > > > > and
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> extend it via a config option
> (or
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> something) to not only take the
> > SAN
> > > > > > >> snapshot,
> > > > > > >> > but
> > > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > copy
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> the underlying VHD (XenServer
> > only)
> > > to
> > > > > > NFS.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 3) The SAN snapshot is always
> > taken.
> > > > > It's
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> > > > backup
> > > > > > >> > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > NFS
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> that is optional.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 4) Templates can be created from
> > the
> > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > that's
> > > > > > >> > > > > on
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> SAN (already works).
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 5) CloudStack volumes can be
> > created
> > > > > from
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> that's on
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> SAN (already works as long as
> the
> > > new
> > > > > > >> > CloudStack
> > > > > > >> > > > > volume
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ends
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> up on the same primary storage).
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Would we have a need for a
> storage
> > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > >> API
> > > > > > >> > > > then
> > > > > > >> > > > > or
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> would that just be the standard
> > > volume
> > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > without
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> backup to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > NFS?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Thanks!
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Mike
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 5:24 PM,
> > Syed
> > > > > > Mushtaq
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> <syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Is it possible to have both
> > > > > > functionalities
> > > > > > >> > > > > (snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > > on
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> SAN & Sec
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Storage) coexist? Because
> > Ideally,
> > > we
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > >> > like
> > > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > have
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > both.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> For example, some of our
> > customers
> > > > want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > implement
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > their
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> own backup strategies and do
> > > > encryption
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > their
> > > > > > >> > > > > > backups
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> which is a perfect use case for
> > > > Storage
> > > > > > >> > Snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > while
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > our
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> other customers will still keep
> > > using
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > standard
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > volume
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > snapshot.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> To keep things backward
> > compatible,
> > > > we
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > >> > add a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > setting
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> which
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > says
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to not upload on secondary
> > storage,
> > > > > > >> because,
> > > > > > >> > > after
> > > > > > >> > > > > > all,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> would take a SAN snapshot first
> > > when
> > > > > > doing
> > > > > > >> a
> > > > > > >> > > > Volume
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Snapshot.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> You could stop the process
> there
> > > and
> > > > > not
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > upload.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> What do you think about this
> > > > approach?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Thanks,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> -Syed
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 4:25 PM,
> > > Mike
> > > > > > >> > Tutkowski <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> So, this is just me thinking
> out
> > > > load
> > > > > > >> here,
> > > > > > >> > but
> > > > > > >> > > > if
> > > > > > >> > > > > a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > given
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> CloudStack cloud doesn't
> > actually
> > > > need
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > provide
> > > > > > >> > > > > > both
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ability
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> to take a SAN snapshot and
> > export
> > > it
> > > > > to
> > > > > > >> NFS
> > > > > > >> > (if
> > > > > > >> > > > > just
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> taking a SAN snapshot is OK),
> > then
> > > > we
> > > > > > >> might
> > > > > > >> > be
> > > > > > >> > > > able
> > > > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> away with no new
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > API
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> calls and simply implement a
> new
> > > > > custom
> > > > > > >> > > snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> and
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > data
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> motion strategy to handle the
> > case
> > > > > where
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> cloud
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > does
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> want both a SAN snapshot and
> > > > > > >> exported-to-NFS
> > > > > > >> > > > > backup.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> In other words, the "default"
> > > > behavior
> > > > > > >> would
> > > > > > >> > be
> > > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > use
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> snapshot strategy and data
> > motion
> > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > >> > > > we
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > already
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> have (the one that only takes
> a
> > > SAN
> > > > > > >> > snapshot).
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> If your CloudStack cloud,
> > however,
> > > > > wants
> > > > > > >> to
> > > > > > >> > > take
> > > > > > >> > > > a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > SAN
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> snapshot and have the data
> > > exported
> > > > to
> > > > > > >> NFS,
> > > > > > >> > > then
> > > > > > >> > > > we
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > could
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> have you manipulate a Swing
> > config
> > > > > file
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > make
> > > > > > >> > > > use
> > > > > > >> > > > > > of
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> new snapshot strategy and data
> > > > motion
> > > > > > >> > strategy
> > > > > > >> > > > that
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> performs both of these
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > activities.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> This way, the old behavior is
> > > still
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > default
> > > > > > >> > > > for
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > users,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> but CloudStack admins can
> change
> > > > this
> > > > > > >> > behavior
> > > > > > >> > > > via
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > configuration.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Thoughts?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 11:55
> AM,
> > > > Mike
> > > > > > >> > > Tutkowski <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Right...I think we will need
> to
> > > > come
> > > > > up
> > > > > > >> > with a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > viable
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> upgrade path or some
> reasonable
> > > way
> > > > > for
> > > > > > >> them
> > > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > move
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> the old way to the new way
> (and
> > > > some
> > > > > > >> obvious
> > > > > > >> > > way
> > > > > > >> > > > > > that
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> they will know they need
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > do this).
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 11:45
> > AM,
> > > > Syed
> > > > > > >> > Mushtaq
> > > > > > >> > > <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I'm not really sure about
> the
> > > > > upgrade
> > > > > > >> path
> > > > > > >> > > > > however,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> customers who are using 4.6
> > and
> > > > are
> > > > > > on a
> > > > > > >> > > > managed
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > storage
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> would no longer have the
> same
> > > > > > >> functionality
> > > > > > >> > > > with
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Volume
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Snapshots.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 1:43
> > PM,
> > > > Syed
> > > > > > >> > Mushtaq
> > > > > > >> > > <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> So if I understand
> correctly,
> > > > > > currently
> > > > > > >> > > > taking a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Volume
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Snapshots of a volume on a
> > > > managed
> > > > > > >> storage
> > > > > > >> > > > keeps
> > > > > > >> > > > > > it
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> the storage array. As a
> part
> > of
> > > > > this
> > > > > > >> > > feature,
> > > > > > >> > > > we
> > > > > > >> > > > > > can
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> make sure
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Volume Snapshots on managed
> > > > storage
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > >> > > > uploaded
> > > > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> secondary storage. This
> would
> > > > make
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > Volume
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> feature behave the same
> > > > regardless
> > > > > of
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> > > > > storage
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> (managed or
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> non-managed) And, for
> > utilizing
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > efficient
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > backend
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> storage
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > capabilities, we can use the new
> > storage
> > > > > > >> snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > API.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 1:36
> > PM,
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > > >> > > > Tutkowski <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Whatever we do here, we
> need
> > > to
> > > > > > have a
> > > > > > >> > plan
> > > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > deal
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> with the fact that we
> > already
> > > > > have a
> > > > > > >> > > feature
> > > > > > >> > > > > (in
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 4.6
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> later) that allows you to
> > use
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> > existing
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> volume-snapshot APIs to
> > > create a
> > > > > > >> volume
> > > > > > >> > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > (for
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> managed
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> storage) that resides on a
> > > > backend
> > > > > > SAN
> > > > > > >> > > > (using a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > custom
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> snapshot strategy and a
> > custom
> > > > > data
> > > > > > >> > motion
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > strategy).
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> If these new APIs go in,
> > then
> > > > how
> > > > > > >> should
> > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > original
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> implementation (present in
> > 4.6
> > > > and
> > > > > > >> later)
> > > > > > >> > > be
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > changed?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> If it
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> changed, how do we support
> > > > > customers
> > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > >> > > are
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > already
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> using
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> original volume-snapshot
> API
> > > to
> > > > > take
> > > > > > >> > > > snapshots
> > > > > > >> > > > > > on a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> backend
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > SAN?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Mike
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at
> 11:27
> > > AM,
> > > > > > Will
> > > > > > >> > > > Stevens <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> wstevens@cloudops.com
> > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Will you be able to
> create
> > a
> > > > > > Template
> > > > > > >> > > from a
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > StorageSnapshot?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> If yes, will the template
> > be
> > > > > stored
> > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > secondary
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> storage like normal
> > templates
> > > > or
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > >> > > > be
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > handled
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> somehow on the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > vendor side?
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Will STEVENS*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Lead Developer
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *CloudOps* *| *Cloud
> > > Solutions
> > > > > > >> Experts
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal
> > *|*
> > > > > Quebec
> > > > > > >> *|*
> > > > > > >> > > H3J
> > > > > > >> > > > > 1S6
> > > > > > >> > > > > > w
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> cloudops.com *|* tw
> > > @CloudOps_
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at
> 1:22
> > > PM,
> > > > > > Syed
> > > > > > >> > > > Mushtaq <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Will!!!
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at
> > 1:19
> > > > PM,
> > > > > > Will
> > > > > > >> > > > Stevens
> > > > > > >> > > > > <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wstevens@cloudops.com
> > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I explicitly linked the
> > > > Design
> > > > > > >> Spec in
> > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > Jira
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> ticket because it was
> not
> > > > clear
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > 'mention'
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> section because it
> shows
> > > as a
> > > > > > page
> > > > > > >> > 'you
> > > > > > >> > > do
> > > > > > >> > > > > not
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > permission to'.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> *Will STEVENS*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Lead Developer
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> *CloudOps* *| *Cloud
> > > > Solutions
> > > > > > >> Experts
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 420 rue Guy *|*
> Montreal
> > > *|*
> > > > > > Quebec
> > > > > > >> > *|*
> > > > > > >> > > > H3J
> > > > > > >> > > > > > 1S6
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > w
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> cloudops.com *|* tw
> > > > @CloudOps_
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at
> > 1:02
> > > > PM,
> > > > > > >> Syed
> > > > > > >> > > Ahmed
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> <sahmed@cloudops.com
> > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Design Spec:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Sto
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> rageSnapshot++API
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jira Ticket
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-9
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 27
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 8
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> We plan to propose a
> new
> > > set
> > > > > of
> > > > > > >> APIs
> > > > > > >> > to
> > > > > > >> > > > do
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots on managed
> > > storage
> > > > > > >> backends
> > > > > > >> > > > like
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > SolidFire.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Snapshots on current
> > > managed
> > > > > > >> storage
> > > > > > >> > > stay
> > > > > > >> > > > > on
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> device which is
> contrary
> > > to
> > > > > what
> > > > > > >> > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > calls
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > snpshots.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> But taking snapshots
> on
> > > > > storage
> > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > >> > > > keeping
> > > > > > >> > > > > > it
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> there has its own
> > > advantages
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> we would ideally like
> to
> > > > have
> > > > > > both
> > > > > > >> > ways
> > > > > > >> > > > of
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > doing
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots. This
> proposal
> > > > adds
> > > > > 4
> > > > > > >> new
> > > > > > >> > > APIs
> > > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > create
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots on backend
> > > > storage.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guys think
> > of
> > > > this
> > > > > > >> > > feature? I
> > > > > > >> > > > > > would
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> love to have some
> > > feedback.
> > > > I
> > > > > am
> > > > > > >> > > working
> > > > > > >> > > > on
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > making
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the design
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > spec
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> more concrete but
> wanted
> > > to
> > > > > > have a
> > > > > > >> > high
> > > > > > >> > > > > level
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback first before
> > > > starting
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >> > work
> > > > > > >> > > on
> > > > > > >> > > > > it.
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -Syed
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> *Senior CloudStack
> > Developer,
> > > > > > >> SolidFire
> > > > > > >> > > Inc.*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> e:
> > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > >> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Advancing the way the
> world
> > > uses
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > cloud
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >*™
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> *
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> --
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > > > > SolidFire
> > > > > > >> > Inc.*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> e:
> > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > >> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Advancing the way the world
> > uses
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> cloud
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> <
> > > > > > >> > > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >*™*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> --
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > > > > SolidFire
> > > > > > >> Inc.*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> e:
> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Advancing the way the world
> uses
> > > the
> > > > > > cloud
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> <
> > > > > > >> > > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >*™*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> --
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > > > SolidFire
> > > > > > >> Inc.*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Advancing the way the world uses
> > the
> > > > > cloud
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> <
> > > > > > >> > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >*™*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > > SolidFire
> > > > > > Inc.*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses
> the
> > > > cloud
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >> > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > > >> > > > > >*™*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Find out more about ShapeBlue and
> our
> > > > range
> > > > > of
> > > > > > >> > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > related
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > services:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >> > http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//>
> > > > > > >> > > |
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > CSForge –
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > rapid IaaS deployment framework <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/csforge/
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Consulting
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> |
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Software Engineering
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >> > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/
> > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Infrastructure Support
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >> > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > |
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Bootcamp Training Courses
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire
> > > Inc.*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the
> cloud
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > > >> > >*™*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our
> range
> > of
> > > > > > >> CloudStack
> > > > > > >> > > > > related
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > services:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> |
> > > > > > >> > > > > CSForge –
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > rapid
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > IaaS deployment framework <
> > > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/csforge/
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Consulting <
> > > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > |
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Software Engineering
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Infrastructure Support
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > |
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Bootcamp Training Courses <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range
> of
> > > > > > >> CloudStack
> > > > > > >> > > > related
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > services:
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//
> > > > > >
> > > > > > |
> > > > > > >> > > > CSForge –
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > rapid
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > IaaS deployment framework <
> > > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/csforge/>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Consulting <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > |
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Software Engineering
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Infrastructure Support
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/>
> > > > > > >> > |
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Bootcamp Training Courses <
> > > > > > >> > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > > >> > > > > > > <
> http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > >*™*
> > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > > --
> > > > > > >> > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > >> > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > > >> > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > > >> > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > >> > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > > >> > > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> >*™*
> > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > --
> > > > > > >> > > > Ian Rae
> > > > > > >> > > > CEO | PDG
> > > > > > >> > > > c: 514.944.4008
> > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > >> > > > CloudOps | Cloud Infrastructure and Networking Solutions
> > > > > > >> > > > www.cloudops.com | 420 rue Guy | Montreal | Canada |
> H3J
> > > 1S6
> > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > --
> > > > > > >> > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > >> > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > > >> > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > >> > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > >> > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > > >> > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > o: 303.746.7302
> > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range of CloudStack related
> services:
> > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > <http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//> | CSForge – rapid
> > IaaS deployment framework <http://shapeblue.com/csforge/>
> > CloudStack Consulting <http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/> |
> CloudStack
> > Software Engineering
> > <http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> > CloudStack Infrastructure Support
> > <http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/> | CloudStack
> > Bootcamp Training Courses <http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *Mike Tutkowski*
> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> o: 303.746.7302
> Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
>

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