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From Syed Mushtaq <syed1.mush...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Propose][New Feature] Storage Snapshots
Date Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:55:14 GMT
> Situation: Global setting value is changed to a non-default value.
>
> 2) Action: Volume snapshot is taken with managed storage. Result: ??? I'm
> not sure which scenario we're looking at here now.
>

In this situation, volume snapshots will end up on secondary storage and
the snapshot on the managed storage will be deleted.


>
> 3) Action: Storage snapshot is taken with managed storage. Result: ??? I'm
> not sure which scenario we're looking at here now.
>

In this situation, the snapshot stays on the managed storage.

Does this answer your question Mike?





On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Mike Tutkowski <
mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com> wrote:

> Hi Syed,
>
> Can you clarify how you see these behaviors (below) working now that we are
> considering a global settings value applicable to managed storage with
> volume snapshots?
>
> State: Global setting value defaults to keep snapshot on storage system
> (primary storage) for managed storage.
>
> 1) Action: Volume snapshot is taken with managed storage. Result: Snapshot
> is taken and kept on storage system (primary storage). (This is what you
> and I have been working on for a couple months now.)
>
>
>
> Thanks!
> Mike
>
> On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Syed Mushtaq <syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I agree with Mike's concern about backward compatibility. We can add a
> > global flag which makes sure that the way volume snapshots work currently
> > on managed storage (stay on the device) is retained after upgrade. We can
> > then safely implement the Storage Snapshot API while making the Volume
> > Snpashot API move the snapshot to Secondary Storage.
> >
> > Sounds good guys?
> >
> > -Syed
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Here's what we have for snapshots for managed storage as of 4.6, Paul:
> > >
> > > 1. VM snapshots (no proposed changes to this).
> > >
> > > 2. Volume snapshots that do not end up on secondary storage, but rather
> > are
> > > stored on a SAN (effectively storing snapshots on primary storage).
> > >
> > > Pierre-Luc is saying he'd like this for snapshots for managed storage:
> > >
> > > A. VM snapshots (no proposed changes to this).
> > >
> > > B. Volume snapshots that export to secondary storage.
> > >
> > > C. New: Storage snapshots that behave like 2 (above).
> > >
> > > I like Pierre-Luc's ideas there, but the problem is backward
> > compatibility.
> > >
> > > If customers who were using managed storage with volume snapshots in
> 4.6
> > > were getting their snapshots put on a SAN, then in 4.9 - all of a
> sudden
> > -
> > > their new snapshots are put on secondary storage (unless they
> explicitly
> > > change over to using the new Storage snapshots feature).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 12:32 PM, Paul Angus <paul.angus@shapeblue.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Just to make sure I'm on the same page, are we talking about;
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-9278 ?
> > > >
> > > > The FS reads (to me) more like 1a + the possibility to export to
> > > secondary
> > > > storage if required?
> > > > Have I understood correctly?
> > > > I have seen [1a] implemented for VMware by NetApp in their beta
> > > CloudStack
> > > > plugin (pleased I can say that without Mike beating me up now). No
> > > changes
> > > > to the CloudStack API were required. (nb it didn't export to
> secondary
> > > > storage).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1. VM Snapshot (point-in-time hypervisor based snapshots)
> > > > 1a. SAN assisted VM snapshots (point-in-time hypervisor snapshot
> takes
> > > > place on transparently SAN to avoid performance issue in disk chains)
> > > > 2. SAN Snapshot (Storage Snapshot) - NEW
> > > > 3. Volume Snapshot (current old/slow transfer to secstorage)
> > > > 4. Backup - JUST AN IDEAL.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [image: ShapeBlue] <http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > Paul Angus
> > > > VP Technology ,  ShapeBlue
> > > > d:  *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44 203 603 0540*
> > > > <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>  |  m:
> > > > *+44 7711 418784* <+44%207711%20418784>
> > > > e:  *paul.angus@shapeblue.com | t: @cloudyangus*
> > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com%20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus>  |  w:
> > > > *www.shapeblue.com* <http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > a:  53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden London WC2N 4HS UK
> > > > Shape Blue Ltd is a company incorporated in England & Wales.
> ShapeBlue
> > > > Services India LLP is a company incorporated in India and is operated
> > > under
> > > > license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil Consultoria Ltda is a
> > > > company incorporated in Brasil and is operated under license from
> Shape
> > > > Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company registered by The
> Republic
> > of
> > > > South Africa and is traded under license from Shape Blue Ltd.
> ShapeBlue
> > > is
> > > > a registered trademark.
> > > > This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are
> > intended
> > > > solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any
> views
> > > or
> > > > opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
> > necessarily
> > > > represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or related companies. If you are
> not
> > > the
> > > > intended recipient of this email, you must neither take any action
> > based
> > > > upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone. Please contact the
> > > sender
> > > > if you believe you have received this email in error.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 7:16 PM
> > > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature] Storage Snapshots
> > > >
> > > > Correct, Will.
> > > >
> > > > That Global Settings would only be for managed storage. Non-managed
> > > > (traditional) volume snapshots are completely un-impacted by this
> > > feature.
> > > >
> > > > If we need to sometimes keep the snapshots on the SAN and sometimes
> > push
> > > > them to secondary storage, we'll need a more robust solution than
> > Global
> > > > Settings, though.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Will Stevens <wstevens@cloudops.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Sorry. I missed a bit of context when I responded. The global
> setting
> > > > > would be only for the managed storage case, currently being called
> > > > Storage
> > > > > Snapshots, and is only to determine if a copy is pushed to
> secondary
> > > > > storage right? The global setting would not change the behavior of
> > the
> > > > > Volume Snapshots right?
> > > > >
> > > > > I was referring to the need for Volume Snapshots and Storage
> > Snapshots
> > > to
> > > > > exist together. Disregard my comment. I caught up on context after
> I
> > > > > posted. My bad...
> > > > >
> > > > > *Will STEVENS*
> > > > > Lead Developer
> > > > >
> > > > > *CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
> > > > > 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6
> > > > > w cloudops.com *|* tw @CloudOps_
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hey Will,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Who's picking the behavior? Is it the cloud provider or the end
> > user?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Will Stevens <
> > wstevens@cloudops.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't think a global setting is a good option because we need
> > > both
> > > > > > > functionality to be available at the same time and for
> different
> > > use
> > > > > > cases
> > > > > > > to be able to pick which they choose.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Will STEVENS*
> > > > > > > Lead Developer
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
> > > > > > > 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6
> > > > > > > w cloudops.com *|* tw @CloudOps_
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now that I re-read your e-mail, it dawned on me: The end-user
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > care
> > > > > > > > where the snapshot is.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If that's true, then we should perhaps control this via
> Global
> > > > > Settings
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > something.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It's not ideal - true, but it does allow us to be backward
> > > > > > compatible.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you have other ideas, though, about how to maintain
> > backward
> > > > > > > > > compatibility, I'm definitely open to hear them.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Syed Mushtaq <
> > > > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> Hi Mike,
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Adding a flag to createSnapshot was the first and the most
> > > > obvious
> > > > > > > thing
> > > > > > > > >> that came to our minds. The problem that I had with this
> was
> > > > that:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> 1) I feel it is exposing something to the end user that is
> > > > > internal
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> cloud.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> 2) We have to follow two different ways of
> restore/deletion
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > >> code path depending on where the Snapshot resides which I
> > find
> > > > > kind
> > > > > > > of a
> > > > > > > > >> bad design.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> But if exposing a archive flag to the end user is
> acceptable
> > > > then
> > > > > we
> > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > >> definitely use this instead of adding the StorageSnapshot
> > API
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >> -Syed
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > > > > >> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > Hi Pierre-Luc,
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > My recommendation would be this:
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > Add an "archive" flag to the current volume-snapshot
> API.
> > > Its
> > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > >> would
> > > > > > > > >> > be "false" because that would be backward compatible
> with
> > > how
> > > > > 4.6
> > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > >> > volume snapshots implemented (i.e. they stay on the SAN
> in
> > > > 4.6,
> > > > > > 4.7,
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > 4.8).
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > If you set archive=true, then we would perform a
> > background
> > > > > > > migration
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > the snapshot from the SAN to the secondary storage (then
> > > > delete
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > SAN
> > > > > > > > >> > snapshot).
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > That archive parameter would only be valid for managed
> > > > storage.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > Sound reasonable?
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > Also, a VM snapshot that includes disks provided by
> > managed
> > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> should
> > > > > > > > >> > work.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > Talk to you later,
> > > > > > > > >> > Mike
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Pierre-Luc Dion <
> > > > > > pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > > Mike,
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > In terms of API's, would you prefer introducing a
> > > parameter
> > > > to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > existing
> > > > > > > > >> > > VolumeSnapshot, example: extract={true|false} with a
> > > > > default
> > > > > > > > value
> > > > > > > > >> of
> > > > > > > > >> > > true which would extract snapshot into the secondary
> > > > storage,
> > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > current default behavior. Then for SAN snapshot that
> > > remain
> > > > on
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> SAN we
> > > > > > > > >> > > would just set "extract=false" ? as oppose to create a
> > new
> > > > > > > > >> > > StorageSnapshot API ?
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > Paul,
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > From what I'm seeing so far, we can't do a VM-snapshot
> > > when
> > > > > > using
> > > > > > > > >> managed
> > > > > > > > >> > > storage for VM having more than one Volume. For the
> > reason
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > are performed outside of the hypervisor awareness and
> > > > > > > > asynchronously.
> > > > > > > > >> If
> > > > > > > > >> > > someone have a way to address that, it would make
> thinks
> > > > much
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > >> > > attractive.
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Ian Rae <
> > > irae@cloudops.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > I think a service provider backup scenario is more
> > > likely
> > > > to
> > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > >> > > advantage
> > > > > > > > >> > > > of SAN snapshot. There are a few reasons for this.
> > > > > Traditional
> > > > > > > > >> backups
> > > > > > > > >> > > > involve access to the file system, and there is an
> > > > > expectation
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >> > this
> > > > > > > > >> > > > can be done with reasonably short time frames
> without
> > > > > > negatively
> > > > > > > > >> > > impacting
> > > > > > > > >> > > > VM performance, and that the backup orchestrator can
> > > apply
> > > > > > > various
> > > > > > > > >> > logic
> > > > > > > > >> > > > and or transformations to the data (compress,
> encrypt,
> > > > > deltas
> > > > > > > > >> etc...).
> > > > > > > > >> > > > While it is true that one could apply a backup
> process
> > > to
> > > > a
> > > > > > > cloud
> > > > > > > > >> > > snapshot,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > this would be slow and inefficient requiring the
> data
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > > > > moved
> > > > > > > > >> > several
> > > > > > > > >> > > > times and there are some major bottlenecks with
> cloud
> > > > > > snapshots.
> > > > > > > > >> With a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > cloud snapshot - there seems to be no reasonable
> > > > expectation
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> being
> > > > > > > > >> > > able
> > > > > > > > >> > > > to do differential snapshots (I think this depends
> on
> > > the
> > > > > > > > >> hypervisor)
> > > > > > > > >> > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > if you do differential snapshots this will make file
> > > > backups
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > >> those
> > > > > > > > >> > > > snapshots even more complicated to orchestrate.
> > > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Suspect there needs to be a different thread on how
> to
> > > > > better
> > > > > > > > enable
> > > > > > > > >> > > > backups, as a service. As per Paul's suggestion, but
> > it
> > > > is a
> > > > > > > > related
> > > > > > > > >> > > > workflow so relevant to this discussion.
> > > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Ian
> > > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > On Monday, February 8, 2016, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > > > > >> > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > To me it sounds like number two and number three
> are
> > > > > > different
> > > > > > > > >> uses
> > > > > > > > >> > for
> > > > > > > > >> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > same "thing"(which is totally fine).
> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > As for taking a fast SAN snapshot and exporting it
> > > > > > > > >> asynchronously, do
> > > > > > > > >> > > we
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > see the SSVM as performing the export?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > To be backwards compatible with what we have in
> 4.6
> > > and
> > > > > > later
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > >> > > volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > snapshots for managed storage, I think it might be
> > > > easier
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > >> pass
> > > > > > > > >> > > in a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > flag that says whether or not to archive the SAN
> > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > (which,
> > > > > > > > >> I
> > > > > > > > >> > > > think,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > is something that you suggested, as well,
> > Pierre-Luc).
> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > On Monday, February 8, 2016, Pierre-Luc Dion <
> > > > > > > > pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > The reason behind the creation of a SAN snapshot
> > > which
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> exported
> > > > > > > > >> > > into
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > secondary storage, is because creating a copy of
> > the
> > > > > .VHD
> > > > > > > > >> directly
> > > > > > > > >> > > > would
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > impact uptime of the VM as creating that copy
> take
> > > > lots
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > >> > Has
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > oppose
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > to a SAN snapshot that is close to instantaneous
> > > which
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > > >> > afterward
> > > > > > > > >> > > be
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > clone into Secondary Storage asynchronously.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I would suspect an extracted VolumeSnapshot
> taken
> > > > from a
> > > > > > SAN
> > > > > > > > >> > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > could
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > have is SAN snapshot deleted to avoid duplica
> and
> > > > space
> > > > > > > > >> consumption
> > > > > > > > >> > > on
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Primary Storage side.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I see 3 definitions in our current discussion
> > > > regarding
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > term
> > > > > > > > >> > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > (these are not official terminology but by own
> > > > > > > interpretation
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > > them):
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 1. *Snapshot* (AKA: Storage Snapshot / Mike's
> > > > definition
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > snapshot):
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > it's a volume snapshot at the storage level,
> point
> > > in
> > > > > time
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> your
> > > > > > > > >> > > > data.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > reside on the primary storage. Useful and
> > efficient
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > software
> > > > > > > > >> > side
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > incident.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 2. *Cloud Snapshot *( AKA: CloudStack
> > > VolumeSnapshot/
> > > > > > cloud
> > > > > > > > >> backup
> > > > > > > > >> > > > aws-S3
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > style ): Point in time copy of the Virtual Disk
> > that
> > > > > > reside
> > > > > > > > on a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > different
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > storage array then the original Volume.
> Facilitate
> > > > data
> > > > > > > > >> migration
> > > > > > > > >> > > > between
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > clusters and, in case of primary storage
> incident,
> > > > > Volume
> > > > > > > > >> snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > are
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > not
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > impacted and can be reuse.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 3. *Backup*: Archival of your Virtual-machines
> > data
> > > > that
> > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > >> > > validate
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > data
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > integrity, provide a storage efficient archiving
> > > > method
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > independent
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > way to restore your data in case of an major
> > > > > > infrastructure
> > > > > > > > >> > disaster.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > PL
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > So, let's see if I currently follow the
> > > > requirements:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > * Augment volume snapshots for managed storage
> > to
> > > > > > > > >> conditionally
> > > > > > > > >> > > > export
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > data
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > to NFS. The current process of taking a
> snapshot
> > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > SAN
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > fine,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > but
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > we'd like the option to export the data to
> NFS,
> > as
> > > > > well.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Questions:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Once the data has been exported to NFS, do we
> > keep
> > > > the
> > > > > > SAN
> > > > > > > > >> > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > or
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > delete it?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > If we are deleting the SAN snapshot, then why
> > > don't
> > > > we
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > >> copy
> > > > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > VHD
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > from primary to secondary the way we do today
> > for
> > > > > > > > non-managed
> > > > > > > > >> > (i.e.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > traditional) storage? Why create a SAN
> snapshot
> > in
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >> scenario?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Perhaps
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > to have the SSVM mount and perform the VHD
> copy
> > to
> > > > > > > secondary
> > > > > > > > >> > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > instead of a XenServer host?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks for the clarification.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > By the way, to me a backup is when you copy
> data
> > > > from
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > >> storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > system
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > another (regardless of features, if any, to
> > > restore
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > data
> > > > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > future). A snapshot is a point-in-time view of
> > the
> > > > > data
> > > > > > > of a
> > > > > > > > >> > volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > it's stored on the same storage system as the
> > > > volume.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Pierre-Luc
> > Dion <
> > > > > > > > >> > > pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > That's fun to see that discussion
> happening. I
> > > > 100%
> > > > > > > agree
> > > > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Paul's
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > points of view. VolumeSnapshot are not a
> > backup,
> > > > > but I
> > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > >> > > consider
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > them
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > a safety vest against Primary Storage
> failure,
> > > > > because
> > > > > > > > >> failure
> > > > > > > > >> > > > append
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > :-( .
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The current proposal around snapshots that
> > > reside
> > > > on
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > primary
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > snapshots that end in the Secondary Storage
> is
> > > not
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> address
> > > > > > > > >> > > any
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > kind
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > backups requirement because a snapshot is
> not
> > a
> > > > > > backup,
> > > > > > > > >> event
> > > > > > > > >> > an
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > extracted
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > VM snapshot.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The main idea, and again this is for managed
> > > > > storage;
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 1. StorageSnapshotAPI: Provide storage side
> > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> capability
> > > > > > > > >> > > for
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > fast
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > response time that support rollback to
> > previous
> > > > > > > timestamp,
> > > > > > > > >> > create
> > > > > > > > >> > > > new
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > volume and maybe create template.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > not required to be a new API if the work is
> > > > > > already
> > > > > > > > >> done, I
> > > > > > > > >> > > > think
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > is a different behaviors than the user
> > > expectation
> > > > > of
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > volume-snapshot.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 2. VolumeSnapshotAPI: Provide current
> > cloudstack
> > > > > > > behavior
> > > > > > > > >> that
> > > > > > > > >> > > > create
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > extraction of a volume into SecondaryStorage
> > > which
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > >> reuse
> > > > > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > create a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > new volume into another Primary Storage.
> This
> > > type
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > is a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > slow
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > job since yes it would have to copy the full
> > > > volume
> > > > > > size
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Secondary
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > storage.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > PL
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Syed
> Mushtaq
> > <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I think I share you view on the 'Ideal
> > world'.
> > > > > > Backup
> > > > > > > > (via
> > > > > > > > >> > > Volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Snapshots) is a huge bottleneck in
> > Cloudstack.
> > > > > This
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > amplified
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > especially
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > when you have a object storage as your
> > > secondary
> > > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > because
> > > > > > > > >> > > > it
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > requires two copies (one to an NFS staging
> > > area
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > >> > there
> > > > > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > object
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > storage). And not to mention that all
> these
> > > > copies
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > >> > > consuming
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > hypervisor
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > resources. Xenserver's Dom0 is also a huge
> > > > > > bottleneck
> > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > >> all
> > > > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Network
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > and I/O flow through it. So our intention
> of
> > > > > > proposing
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > "Storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Snapshots" is to give a better way of
> > achiving
> > > > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > while
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > still
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > keeping the original definition of volume
> > > > > snpashots
> > > > > > > (ie
> > > > > > > > >> > upload
> > > > > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > sec
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > storage).
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > But as Erik pointed out volume snapshots
> are
> > > not
> > > > > > > > backups.
> > > > > > > > >> > They
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > work
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > form multi-disk LVM volume groups and
> > dynamic
> > > > > > disks. I
> > > > > > > > am
> > > > > > > > >> all
> > > > > > > > >> > > in
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > better backup solution which handles these
> > use
> > > > > cases
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > utilizes
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > storage's advanced features.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Paul
> Angus
> > <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In the beginning... there were
> CloudStack
> > > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > they
> > > > > > > > >> > > > were
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > actually
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > volume snapshots not hypervisor
> > > point-in-time
> > > > > > > > snapshots.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Then VM snapshots were created (which
> are
> > > > > > > > point-in-time
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > hypervisor
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > snapshots) and we started referring to
> the
> > > > > > original
> > > > > > > > >> > snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > > as
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > snapshots.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > CloudStack does not offer 'backups', but
> > > many
> > > > > > people
> > > > > > > > use
> > > > > > > > >> > > volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > as backups. However you can't in-place
> > > restore
> > > > > > > volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > have a VM with multiple volumes, the
> > volume
> > > > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> must
> > > > > > > > >> > be
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > done
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > series, meaning that the state across
> all
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> volumes is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > unlikely
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > consistent.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > 'Actual Backups' would enable all of the
> > > > restore
> > > > > > > > options
> > > > > > > > >> > > which
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > users
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > expect as well options as to where they
> > > might
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > >> stored. In
> > > > > > > > >> > > my
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > ideal
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > world
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > they would also be able to leverage
> > back-end
> > > > > > > hardware
> > > > > > > > >> (such
> > > > > > > > >> > > as
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Solidfire,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > NetApp etc :) ) and software such as
> > Veeam,
> > > > > > > Commvault
> > > > > > > > >> etc
> > > > > > > > >> > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > accelerate
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > process.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > [image: ShapeBlue] <
> > > http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Paul Angus
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > VP Technology , ShapeBlue
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > d: *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44 203 603
> > 0540*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>
> > > > > |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > m:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *+44 7711 418784* <+44%207711%20418784>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > e: *paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > t: @cloudyangus*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>%20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > | w:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *www.shapeblue.com* <
> > > http://www.shapeblue.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > a: 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden
> London
> > > WC2N
> > > > > > 4HS
> > > > > > > UK
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Shape Blue Ltd is a company incorporated
> > in
> > > > > > England
> > > > > > > &
> > > > > > > > >> > Wales.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Services India LLP is a company
> > incorporated
> > > > in
> > > > > > > India
> > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > >> > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > operated
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > under
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue
> > > Brasil
> > > > > > > > >> Consultoria
> > > > > > > > >> > > Ltda
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > company incorporated in Brasil and is
> > > operated
> > > > > > under
> > > > > > > > >> > license
> > > > > > > > >> > > > from
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Shape
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a
> > company
> > > > > > > registered
> > > > > > > > >> by
> > > > > > > > >> > The
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Republic
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > South Africa and is traded under license
> > > from
> > > > > > Shape
> > > > > > > > Blue
> > > > > > > > >> > Ltd.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > a registered trademark.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > This email and any attachments to it may
> > be
> > > > > > > > confidential
> > > > > > > > >> > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > are
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > intended
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > solely for the use of the individual to
> > whom
> > > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > addressed.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Any
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > views
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > opinions expressed are solely those of
> the
> > > > > author
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > >> > not
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > necessarily
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or
> > related
> > > > > > > > companies.
> > > > > > > > >> If
> > > > > > > > >> > > you
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > are
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > intended recipient of this email, you
> must
> > > > > neither
> > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > >> any
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > action
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > based
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > upon its contents, nor copy or show it
> to
> > > > > anyone.
> > > > > > > > Please
> > > > > > > > >> > > > contact
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > sender
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > if you believe you have received this
> > email
> > > in
> > > > > > > error.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > From: Syed Mushtaq [mailto:
> > > > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;> <javascript:;>]
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 4:58 PM
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature]
> > Storage
> > > > > > > Snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Paul,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > When you say actual backups, how would
> it
> > be
> > > > > > > different
> > > > > > > > >> from
> > > > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Snapshots that exist currently. My
> > > > understanding
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Backups
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > end
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sec Storage whereas Snapshots are just a
> > > > > > > point-in-time
> > > > > > > > >> > state
> > > > > > > > >> > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > which can be restored back correct?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -Syed
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Paul
> > Angus
> > > <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Syed,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > As I understand it, the SolidFire
> plugin
> > > > will
> > > > > > > export
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > secondary storage if the user
> requests a
> > > > > > template
> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > wants to download the snapshot from
> the
> > > > cloud.
> > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > >> is a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > good,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > pragmatic approach and yes Mike the
> > > > SolidFire
> > > > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > super
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > reliable and snapshots on SolidFire
> > arrays
> > > > > take
> > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > >> next
> > > > > > > > >> > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > no
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > space.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > BUT I think that we are talking about
> a
> > > more
> > > > > > > general
> > > > > > > > >> > > purpose
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > API,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > other storage systems may not be as
> > > awesome
> > > > as
> > > > > > > > Mike's.
> > > > > > > > >> > > That's
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > my
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > concern. Also, the time to transfer
> for
> > > say
> > > > > 1TB
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> move
> > > > > > > > >> > > from
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > primary
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > to sec storage and then create a VM
> > > template
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > >> > may
> > > > > > > > >> > > be
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > too
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > for users.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > @Mike I don’t think 'we' use the term
> > > volume
> > > > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> for
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > backup,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > just that users want to do backups
> and a
> > > > > volume
> > > > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > type of snapshot that copies the disk
> > > > > elsewhere
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> can
> > > > > > > > >> > be
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > scheduled.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I'm 'pondering' the implications of
> > > enabling
> > > > > > > actual
> > > > > > > > >> > backups
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > (through
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > recognised backup providers) and the
> > user
> > > > > > > > requirements
> > > > > > > > >> > > around
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > (particularly restoration use cases)
> as
> > a
> > > > > > separate
> > > > > > > > >> thread
> > > > > > > > >> > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > work.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [image: ShapeBlue] <
> > > > http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > > > > Paul
> > > > > > > > >> Angus
> > > > > > > > >> > > VP
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Technology
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > , ShapeBlue
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > d: *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44 203 603
> > > 0540*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > m:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > *+44 7711 418784*
> <+44%207711%20418784>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > e: *paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > <javascript:;> |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > t: @cloudyangus*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > %20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus> | w:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > *www.shapeblue.com* <
> > > > http://www.shapeblue.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > a: 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden
> > London
> > > > WC2N
> > > > > > 4HS
> > > > > > > > UK
> > > > > > > > >> > Shape
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Blue
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Ltd
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > is a company incorporated in England &
> > > > Wales.
> > > > > > > > >> ShapeBlue
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Services
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > India
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > LLP is a company incorporated in India
> > and
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > operated
> > > > > > > > >> > > under
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > license
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil
> > > > > > Consultoria
> > > > > > > > >> Ltda
> > > > > > > > >> > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > company
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > incorporated in Brasil and is operated
> > > under
> > > > > > > license
> > > > > > > > >> from
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Shape
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Blue
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company
> > > > > > registered
> > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > >> The
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Republic
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > South Africa and is traded under
> license
> > > > from
> > > > > > > Shape
> > > > > > > > >> Blue
> > > > > > > > >> > > Ltd.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ShapeBlue is a registered trademark.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > This email and any attachments to it
> may
> > > be
> > > > > > > > >> confidential
> > > > > > > > >> > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > are
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > intended solely for the use of the
> > > > individual
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > whom
> > > > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > > > >> > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > addressed.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Any views or opinions expressed are
> > solely
> > > > > those
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > author
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > not necessarily represent those of
> Shape
> > > > Blue
> > > > > > Ltd
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > >> > > related
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > companies. If you are not the intended
> > > > > recipient
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> this
> > > > > > > > >> > > > email,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > must neither take any action based
> upon
> > > its
> > > > > > > > contents,
> > > > > > > > >> nor
> > > > > > > > >> > > > copy
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > or
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > show
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > it to anyone. Please contact the
> sender
> > if
> > > > you
> > > > > > > > believe
> > > > > > > > >> > you
> > > > > > > > >> > > > have
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > received
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > this email in error.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > From: Syed Mushtaq [mailto:
> > > > > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>]
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: 05 February 2016 15:31
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature]
> > > Storage
> > > > > > > > Snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I think the terminology confusion
> comes
> > > from
> > > > > AWS
> > > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > >> > they
> > > > > > > > >> > > > do
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > EBS
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > snapshots backed up to S3 and
> CloudStack
> > > > sort
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> followed
> > > > > > > > >> > > > that.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > And
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > an end user who is oblivious to the
> > > > internals
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > >> > > provider,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > my
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > expectation would be something similar
> > to
> > > > what
> > > > > > AWS
> > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > > > >> > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > my
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > biggest reference point.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > To your point Mike, I agree that a
> > Primary
> > > > > > Storage
> > > > > > > > >> > failure
> > > > > > > > >> > > on
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > SolidFire is unlikely, there are other
> > > > > > motivations
> > > > > > > > >> for us
> > > > > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > push
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > data
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > to secondary storage. Primary storage
> > > > (atleast
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > us)
> > > > > > > > >> > > costs
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > around 3
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > times as much as secondary storage and
> > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > >> > primary
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > are rarely used (especially for some
> of
> > > our
> > > > > > > > customers
> > > > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > > > >> > > do
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > daily
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > backups).
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Mike
> > > > > Tutkowski
> > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the weirdness is around
> > > > terminology.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > For most systems I've worked on, a
> > > > snapshot
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > >> > backup
> > > > > > > > >> > > > are
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > two
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > completely different things (but
> > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > >> > > > traditionally
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > used
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the term "volume snapshot" to mean
> > > > backup).
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > I will put in a SolidFire "plug"
> here
> > > and
> > > > > say,
> > > > > > > > >> though,
> > > > > > > > >> > > that
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > if
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > primary storage is running on
> > SolidFire
> > > > that
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > unlikely
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > you'll
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > encounter an issue where your
> primary
> > > > > storage
> > > > > > > goes
> > > > > > > > >> > > offline
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > (and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > you'll even maintain your
> performance
> > > > > > guarantees
> > > > > > > > >> during
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > failure
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > scenarios and upgrades, as well).
> That
> > > > being
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> case,
> > > > > > > > >> > it
> > > > > > > > >> > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > less
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > useful to require a backup to Swift
> > (but
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > >> perfectly
> > > > > > > > >> > > OK
> > > > > > > > >> > > > if
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > that's
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > what we want to do
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > here).
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:07 AM, Syed
> > > > Mushtaq
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe with the current
> > > > implementation
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > Snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > on
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > managed
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > (SolidFire) the snapshots are
> never
> > > > > exported
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > secondary
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > storage.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > While this solves the problem of
> > > having
> > > > > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > taking
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > forever
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > to get to sec storage, this leaves
> > us
> > > > > with a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > huge
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > liability if our primary storage
> > goes
> > > > > down.
> > > > > > We
> > > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > our recovery path because we store
> > > them
> > > > in
> > > > > > > Swift
> > > > > > > > >> > which
> > > > > > > > >> > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > reliable
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and resilient to failures.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > With Storage snpashots our goal is
> > to
> > > > have
> > > > > > > > Volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > always
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > backed up to secondary storage and
> > > > Storage
> > > > > > > > >> Snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > stay
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > on
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > primary
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > storage.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > A provider could potentially mix
> > both
> > > > > these
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> solve
> > > > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > problem
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > that you mentioned where you want
> to
> > > > meet
> > > > > > > user's
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > expectation
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > of a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > snapshot (ie backup to sec
> storage)
> > > > while
> > > > > > > having
> > > > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > > > >> > > > ability
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > utilize faster sanpshots (i.e. on
> > the
> > > > > > device)
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this clarifies things.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -Syed
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 9:04 AM,
> Paul
> > > > Angus
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > HI guys,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could someone point me to the
> Jira
> > > bug
> > > > > of
> > > > > > FS
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > SAN-snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > feature
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 4.6 which is mentioned.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my discussions with users
> and
> > > > > > operators
> > > > > > > > >> around
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd make
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > following observations:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a. 'users' use snapshots as
> > backups
> > > > > (both
> > > > > > > > >> long-term
> > > > > > > > >> > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > short
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > term)
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the expectation that they can
> use
> > > them
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > >> recovery
> > > > > > > > >> > > if
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > required.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > b. operators fall back to
> > snapshots
> > > if
> > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > >> > has
> > > > > > > > >> > > > gone
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > wrong
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with primary storage.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > c. users sometimes want to be
> able
> > > to
> > > > > > export
> > > > > > > > >> > > snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > > as
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > well
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > create
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > new VMs from their snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > d. snapshots are a currently a
> > > massive
> > > > > > pain
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > operators,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know at
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > least
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > one public cloud who have
> > snapshots
> > > > > which
> > > > > > > > take 2
> > > > > > > > >> > days
> > > > > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > complete.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > e. snapshots (as they are) can't
> > be
> > > > used
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > >> > multiple
> > > > > > > > >> > > > LVM
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > disks.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the process Mike has
> used
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> SolidFire
> > > > > > > > >> > > > plugin
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > (only
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > moving
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > disk image to secondary storage
> > when
> > > > you
> > > > > > > > >> absolutely
> > > > > > > > >> > > > have
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > to)
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a very
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > good
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and pragmatic solution. I wonder
> > > what
> > > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > operator
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > experience
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if they have an issue with a
> given
> > > > > primary
> > > > > > > > >> storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > pool
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > cluster.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > (I
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know that that is REALLY
> unlikely
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> SolidFire
> > > > > > > > >> > > case
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) And
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the transfer from primary to
> > > secondary
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > slow,
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > time
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > being able
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > create a template or export the
> > > volume
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > >> > slow.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So for me the issue is around
> > making
> > > > > sure
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> > > end
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > users
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > expectations
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > are met (while improving the
> > > > > > > speed/efficiency
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > back
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > end)
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [image: ShapeBlue] <
> > > > > > > http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > > > > > >> Paul
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Angus
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > VP
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Technology , ShapeBlue
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > d: *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44
> 203
> > > 603
> > > > > > 0540*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > m:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *+44 7711 418784*
> > > > <+44%207711%20418784>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > e: *paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;> | t:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > @cloudyangus*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > %20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus> | w:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *www.shapeblue.com* <
> > > > > > > http://www.shapeblue.com
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a: 53 Chandos Place, Covent
> Garden
> > > > > London
> > > > > > > WC2N
> > > > > > > > >> 4HS
> > > > > > > > >> > UK
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Shape
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Blue
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ltd is a company incorporated in
> > > > > England &
> > > > > > > > >> Wales.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Services India LLP is a company
> > > > > > incorporated
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > >> > India
> > > > > > > > >> > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > operated
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > under
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > license from Shape Blue Ltd.
> Shape
> > > > Blue
> > > > > > > Brasil
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Consultoria
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Ltda
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is a company incorporated in
> > Brasil
> > > > and
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> operated
> > > > > > > > >> > > > under
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > license from Shape Blue Ltd.
> > > ShapeBlue
> > > > > SA
> > > > > > > Pty
> > > > > > > > >> Ltd
> > > > > > > > >> > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > company
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > registered by The Republic
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > South Africa and is traded under
> > > > license
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > >> Shape
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Blue
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Ltd.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a registered trademark.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This email and any attachments
> to
> > it
> > > > may
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > >> > > > confidential
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > intended
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > solely for the use of the
> > individual
> > > > to
> > > > > > whom
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > addressed.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any views
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > opinions expressed are solely
> > those
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> author
> > > > > > > > >> > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > do
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > necessarily
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > represent those of Shape Blue
> Ltd
> > or
> > > > > > related
> > > > > > > > >> > > companies.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > If
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > are not
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > intended recipient of this
> email,
> > > you
> > > > > must
> > > > > > > > >> neither
> > > > > > > > >> > > take
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > any
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > action
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > based
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > upon its contents, nor copy or
> > show
> > > it
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> anyone.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Please
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > contact
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > sender
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you believe you have received
> > > this
> > > > > > email
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > >> > error.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Pierre-Luc Dion [mailto:
> > > > > > > > >> pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>]
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016
> > 12:56
> > > > PM
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Propose][New
> > Feature]
> > > > > > Storage
> > > > > > > > >> > Snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea of introducing a new
> API:
> > > > > > > > >> StorageSnapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > for
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > managed
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the VolumeSnapshot
> > default,
> > > or
> > > > > > > > expected,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > behavior
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > archive snapshots into the
> > Secondary
> > > > > > > Storage.
> > > > > > > > >> So a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > StorageSnapshot API would be
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > snapshot that remain on the
> > managed
> > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > appliance.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quickly looking at the API doc
> > and I
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > see a
> > > > > > > > >> > > strong
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > requirement for volume snapshots
> > to
> > > be
> > > > > > moved
> > > > > > > > >> into
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > secondary
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > storage. So, maybe
> StorageSnapshot
> > > API
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > >> > useful,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > but
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > both
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > use cases are required. A
> snapshot
> > > > that
> > > > > > > remain
> > > > > > > > >> on
> > > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > managed
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > storage, and another type of
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that end up into the secondary
> > > > storage.
> > > > > > > Since
> > > > > > > > >> > you've
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > done a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > lot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > work,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > might easier to just add a
> > parameter
> > > > to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> current
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > API
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > trigger an extraction of the
> > storage
> > > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> into
> > > > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > secondary
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > storage?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > PL
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM,
> > Mike
> > > > > > > > Tutkowski <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that all sounds
> > reasonable
> > > > > then
> > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > >> thanks!
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 6:52
> PM,
> > > Syed
> > > > > > > > Mushtaq <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> You are correct Mike in terms
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > requirements.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > One
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > earlier
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> iterations on this was to
> have
> > an
> > > > > > > argument
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > create
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > API
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> which decides whether to
> backup
> > > the
> > > > > > > volume
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > sec
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> we realized it would make
> > > > management
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > quite
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > messy
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> so we proposed a new api
> > instead.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016, 8:29 PM
> > Mike
> > > > > > > Tutkowski
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> <
> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Hi,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Just to make sure I
> understand
> > > all
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > requirements
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > here:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 1) This relates only to
> > managed
> > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > (1:1
> > > > > > > > >> > > > mapping
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > between
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> a virtual disk and a backend
> > SAN
> > > > > > > volume).
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 2) We want to take the
> current
> > > > > > > (introduced
> > > > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > > > >> > > 4.6)
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> functionality, which
> creates a
> > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> > > SAN,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> extend it via a config
> option
> > > (or
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> something) to not only take
> > the
> > > > SAN
> > > > > > > > >> snapshot,
> > > > > > > > >> > but
> > > > > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > copy
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> the underlying VHD
> (XenServer
> > > > only)
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > NFS.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 3) The SAN snapshot is
> always
> > > > taken.
> > > > > > > It's
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > backup
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > NFS
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> that is optional.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 4) Templates can be created
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > that's
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > on
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> SAN (already works).
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 5) CloudStack volumes can be
> > > > created
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> that's on
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> SAN (already works as long
> as
> > > the
> > > > > new
> > > > > > > > >> > CloudStack
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ends
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> up on the same primary
> > storage).
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Would we have a need for a
> > > storage
> > > > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> API
> > > > > > > > >> > > > then
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > or
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> would that just be the
> > standard
> > > > > volume
> > > > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > without
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> backup to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > NFS?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Thanks!
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Mike
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 5:24
> > PM,
> > > > Syed
> > > > > > > > Mushtaq
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> <syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Is it possible to have both
> > > > > > > > functionalities
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > (snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> SAN & Sec
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Storage) coexist? Because
> > > > Ideally,
> > > > > we
> > > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > >> > like
> > > > > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > both.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> For example, some of our
> > > > customers
> > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > implement
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> own backup strategies and
> do
> > > > > > encryption
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > their
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > backups
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> which is a perfect use case
> > for
> > > > > > Storage
> > > > > > > > >> > Snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > while
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> other customers will still
> > keep
> > > > > using
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > standard
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > snapshot.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> To keep things backward
> > > > compatible,
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > >> > add a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > setting
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> which
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > says
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to not upload on secondary
> > > > storage,
> > > > > > > > >> because,
> > > > > > > > >> > > after
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > all,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> would take a SAN snapshot
> > first
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > > doing
> > > > > > > > >> a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Snapshot.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> You could stop the process
> > > there
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > upload.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> What do you think about
> this
> > > > > > approach?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> -Syed
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 4:25
> > PM,
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > >> > Tutkowski <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> So, this is just me
> thinking
> > > out
> > > > > > load
> > > > > > > > >> here,
> > > > > > > > >> > but
> > > > > > > > >> > > > if
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > given
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> CloudStack cloud doesn't
> > > > actually
> > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > provide
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > both
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ability
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> to take a SAN snapshot and
> > > > export
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> NFS
> > > > > > > > >> > (if
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > just
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> taking a SAN snapshot is
> > OK),
> > > > then
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > >> might
> > > > > > > > >> > be
> > > > > > > > >> > > > able
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> away with no new
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > API
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> calls and simply
> implement a
> > > new
> > > > > > > custom
> > > > > > > > >> > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > data
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> motion strategy to handle
> > the
> > > > case
> > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> cloud
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > does
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> want both a SAN snapshot
> and
> > > > > > > > >> exported-to-NFS
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > backup.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> In other words, the
> > "default"
> > > > > > behavior
> > > > > > > > >> would
> > > > > > > > >> > be
> > > > > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> snapshot strategy and data
> > > > motion
> > > > > > > > strategy
> > > > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > > > >> > > > we
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > already
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> have (the one that only
> > takes
> > > a
> > > > > SAN
> > > > > > > > >> > snapshot).
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> If your CloudStack cloud,
> > > > however,
> > > > > > > wants
> > > > > > > > >> to
> > > > > > > > >> > > take
> > > > > > > > >> > > > a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > SAN
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> snapshot and have the data
> > > > > exported
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> NFS,
> > > > > > > > >> > > then
> > > > > > > > >> > > > we
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> have you manipulate a
> Swing
> > > > config
> > > > > > > file
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > make
> > > > > > > > >> > > > use
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> new snapshot strategy and
> > data
> > > > > > motion
> > > > > > > > >> > strategy
> > > > > > > > >> > > > that
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> performs both of these
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > activities.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> This way, the old behavior
> > is
> > > > > still
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > default
> > > > > > > > >> > > > for
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > users,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> but CloudStack admins can
> > > change
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > >> > behavior
> > > > > > > > >> > > > via
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > configuration.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Thoughts?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at
> 11:55
> > > AM,
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > >> > > Tutkowski <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Right...I think we will
> > need
> > > to
> > > > > > come
> > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > >> > with a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > viable
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> upgrade path or some
> > > reasonable
> > > > > way
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > >> them
> > > > > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > move
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> the old way to the new
> way
> > > (and
> > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > >> obvious
> > > > > > > > >> > > way
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> they will know they need
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > do this).
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at
> > 11:45
> > > > AM,
> > > > > > Syed
> > > > > > > > >> > Mushtaq
> > > > > > > > >> > > <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I'm not really sure
> about
> > > the
> > > > > > > upgrade
> > > > > > > > >> path
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > however,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> customers who are using
> > 4.6
> > > > and
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > on a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > managed
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> would no longer have the
> > > same
> > > > > > > > >> functionality
> > > > > > > > >> > > > with
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Snapshots.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at
> > 1:43
> > > > PM,
> > > > > > Syed
> > > > > > > > >> > Mushtaq
> > > > > > > > >> > > <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> So if I understand
> > > correctly,
> > > > > > > > currently
> > > > > > > > >> > > > taking a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Snapshots of a volume
> on
> > a
> > > > > > managed
> > > > > > > > >> storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > > keeps
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> the storage array. As a
> > > part
> > > > of
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > >> > > feature,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > we
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> make sure
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Volume Snapshots on
> > managed
> > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > >> > > > uploaded
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> secondary storage. This
> > > would
> > > > > > make
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > Volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> feature behave the same
> > > > > > regardless
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> (managed or
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> non-managed) And, for
> > > > utilizing
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > efficient
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > backend
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > capabilities, we can use the new
> > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > API.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at
> > 1:36
> > > > PM,
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Tutkowski <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Whatever we do here,
> we
> > > need
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > have a
> > > > > > > > >> > plan
> > > > > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > deal
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> with the fact that we
> > > > already
> > > > > > > have a
> > > > > > > > >> > > feature
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > (in
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > 4.6
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> later) that allows you
> > to
> > > > use
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > existing
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> volume-snapshot APIs
> to
> > > > > create a
> > > > > > > > >> volume
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > (for
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> managed
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> storage) that resides
> > on a
> > > > > > backend
> > > > > > > > SAN
> > > > > > > > >> > > > (using a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > custom
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> snapshot strategy and
> a
> > > > custom
> > > > > > > data
> > > > > > > > >> > motion
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > strategy).
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> If these new APIs go
> in,
> > > > then
> > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > >> should
> > > > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > original
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> implementation
> (present
> > in
> > > > 4.6
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> later)
> > > > > > > > >> > > be
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > changed?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> If it
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> changed, how do we
> > support
> > > > > > > customers
> > > > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > > > >> > > are
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > already
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> using
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> original
> volume-snapshot
> > > API
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > >> > > > snapshots
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > on a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> backend
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > SAN?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Mike
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at
> > > 11:27
> > > > > AM,
> > > > > > > > Will
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Stevens <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> wstevens@cloudops.com
> > > > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Will you be able to
> > > create
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > Template
> > > > > > > > >> > > from a
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > StorageSnapshot?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> If yes, will the
> > template
> > > > be
> > > > > > > stored
> > > > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > secondary
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> storage like normal
> > > > templates
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > > > >> > > > be
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > handled
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> somehow on the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > vendor side?
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Will STEVENS*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Lead Developer
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *CloudOps* *| *Cloud
> > > > > Solutions
> > > > > > > > >> Experts
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 420 rue Guy *|*
> > Montreal
> > > > *|*
> > > > > > > Quebec
> > > > > > > > >> *|*
> > > > > > > > >> > > H3J
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > 1S6
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > w
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> cloudops.com *|* tw
> > > > > @CloudOps_
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016
> at
> > > 1:22
> > > > > PM,
> > > > > > > > Syed
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Mushtaq <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Will!!!
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016
> at
> > > > 1:19
> > > > > > PM,
> > > > > > > > Will
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Stevens
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> wstevens@cloudops.com
> > > > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I explicitly linked
> > the
> > > > > > Design
> > > > > > > > >> Spec in
> > > > > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Jira
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> ticket because it
> was
> > > not
> > > > > > clear
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 'mention'
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> section because it
> > > shows
> > > > > as a
> > > > > > > > page
> > > > > > > > >> > 'you
> > > > > > > > >> > > do
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > not
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > permission to'.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> *Will STEVENS*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Lead Developer
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> *CloudOps* *|
> *Cloud
> > > > > > Solutions
> > > > > > > > >> Experts
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 420 rue Guy *|*
> > > Montreal
> > > > > *|*
> > > > > > > > Quebec
> > > > > > > > >> > *|*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > H3J
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 1S6
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > w
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> cloudops.com *|*
> tw
> > > > > > @CloudOps_
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016
> > at
> > > > 1:02
> > > > > > PM,
> > > > > > > > >> Syed
> > > > > > > > >> > > Ahmed
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> <
> sahmed@cloudops.com
> > > > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Design Spec:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Sto
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> rageSnapshot++API
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jira Ticket
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-9
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 27
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 8
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> We plan to
> propose a
> > > new
> > > > > set
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> APIs
> > > > > > > > >> > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > do
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots on
> managed
> > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> backends
> > > > > > > > >> > > > like
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > SolidFire.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Snapshots on
> current
> > > > > managed
> > > > > > > > >> storage
> > > > > > > > >> > > stay
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > on
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> device which is
> > > contrary
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > >> > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > calls
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > snpshots.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> But taking
> snapshots
> > > on
> > > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > keeping
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> there has its own
> > > > > advantages
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> we would ideally
> > like
> > > to
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > both
> > > > > > > > >> > ways
> > > > > > > > >> > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > doing
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots. This
> > > proposal
> > > > > > adds
> > > > > > > 4
> > > > > > > > >> new
> > > > > > > > >> > > APIs
> > > > > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > create
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots on
> backend
> > > > > > storage.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guys
> > think
> > > > of
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > >> > > feature? I
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> love to have some
> > > > > feedback.
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > am
> > > > > > > > >> > > working
> > > > > > > > >> > > > on
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > making
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the design
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > spec
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> more concrete but
> > > wanted
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > have a
> > > > > > > > >> > high
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > level
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback first
> > before
> > > > > > starting
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > work
> > > > > > > > >> > > on
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > it.
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -Syed
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> *Senior CloudStack
> > > > Developer,
> > > > > > > > >> SolidFire
> > > > > > > > >> > > Inc.*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> e:
> > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > >> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Advancing the way the
> > > world
> > > > > uses
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > cloud
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >*™
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> *
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> --
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> *Senior CloudStack
> > Developer,
> > > > > > > SolidFire
> > > > > > > > >> > Inc.*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> e:
> > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > >> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Advancing the way the
> world
> > > > uses
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> cloud
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >*™*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> --
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Senior CloudStack
> > Developer,
> > > > > > > SolidFire
> > > > > > > > >> Inc.*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> e:
> > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Advancing the way the
> world
> > > uses
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > cloud
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >*™*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> --
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> *Senior CloudStack
> Developer,
> > > > > > SolidFire
> > > > > > > > >> Inc.*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> e:
> > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Advancing the way the world
> > uses
> > > > the
> > > > > > > cloud
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >*™*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > > > > SolidFire
> > > > > > > > Inc.*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > e:
> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advancing the way the world
> uses
> > > the
> > > > > > cloud
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >> > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >*™*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Find out more about ShapeBlue
> and
> > > our
> > > > > > range
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > related
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > services:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >> > http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//>
> > > > > > > > >> > > |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > CSForge –
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > rapid IaaS deployment framework
> <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/csforge/
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Consulting
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Software Engineering
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >> > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/
> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Infrastructure
> Support
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >> > > >
> > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Bootcamp Training
> > Courses
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > SolidFire
> > > > > Inc.*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the
> > > cloud
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > > > > >> > >*™*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our
> > > range
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> CloudStack
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > related
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > services:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > CSForge –
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > rapid
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > IaaS deployment framework <
> > > > > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/csforge/
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Consulting <
> > > > > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Software Engineering
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Infrastructure Support
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Bootcamp Training Courses <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our
> > range
> > > of
> > > > > > > > >> CloudStack
> > > > > > > > >> > > > related
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > services:
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > CSForge –
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > rapid
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > IaaS deployment framework <
> > > > > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/csforge/>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Consulting <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Software Engineering
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Infrastructure Support
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/>
> > > > > > > > >> > |
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Bootcamp Training Courses <
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > <
> > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > >*™*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <
> http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > >*™*
> > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > --
> > > > > > > > >> > > > Ian Rae
> > > > > > > > >> > > > CEO | PDG
> > > > > > > > >> > > > c: 514.944.4008
> > > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > > CloudOps | Cloud Infrastructure and Networking
> > Solutions
> > > > > > > > >> > > > www.cloudops.com | 420 rue Guy | Montreal | Canada
> |
> > > H3J
> > > > > 1S6
> > > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > --
> > > > > > > > >> > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > > > >> > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > > > > >> > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > >> > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > > > >> > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > > > > >> > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > > > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range of CloudStack related
> > > services:
> > > > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > > > <http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//> | CSForge –
> rapid
> > > > IaaS deployment framework <http://shapeblue.com/csforge/>
> > > > CloudStack Consulting <http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/>
> |
> > > CloudStack
> > > > Software Engineering
> > > > <http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> > > > CloudStack Infrastructure Support
> > > > <http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/> |
> CloudStack
> > > > Bootcamp Training Courses <http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/
> >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *Mike Tutkowski*
> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> o: 303.746.7302
> Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
>

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