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From Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
Subject Re: [Propose][New Feature] Storage Snapshots
Date Mon, 08 Feb 2016 19:33:21 GMT
A global setting would probably be fine.  How would the case be handled if
the global setting is changed?  Would it only affect the snapshots created
after the change was made?  We would also code defensively so if the global
setting changes that we don't assume all the snapshots in the past had the
same global setting when they were created.

*Will STEVENS*
Lead Developer

*CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6
w cloudops.com *|* tw @CloudOps_

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Mike Tutkowski <mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> wrote:

> Correct, Will.
>
> That Global Settings would only be for managed storage. Non-managed
> (traditional) volume snapshots are completely un-impacted by this feature.
>
> If we need to sometimes keep the snapshots on the SAN and sometimes push
> them to secondary storage, we'll need a more robust solution than Global
> Settings, though.
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Will Stevens <wstevens@cloudops.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Sorry.  I missed a bit of context when I responded.  The global setting
> > would be only for the managed storage case, currently being called
> Storage
> > Snapshots, and is only to determine if a copy is pushed to secondary
> > storage right?  The global setting would not change the behavior of the
> > Volume Snapshots right?
> >
> > I was referring to the need for Volume Snapshots and Storage Snapshots to
> > exist together.  Disregard my comment.  I caught up on context after I
> > posted.  My bad...
> >
> > *Will STEVENS*
> > Lead Developer
> >
> > *CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
> > 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6
> > w cloudops.com *|* tw @CloudOps_
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Will,
> > >
> > > Who's picking the behavior? Is it the cloud provider or the end user?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Will Stevens <wstevens@cloudops.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I don't think a global setting is a good option because we need both
> > > > functionality to be available at the same time and for different use
> > > cases
> > > > to be able to pick which they choose.
> > > >
> > > > *Will STEVENS*
> > > > Lead Developer
> > > >
> > > > *CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
> > > > 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6
> > > > w cloudops.com *|* tw @CloudOps_
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Now that I re-read your e-mail, it dawned on me: The end-user
> doesn't
> > > > care
> > > > > where the snapshot is.
> > > > >
> > > > > If that's true, then we should perhaps control this via Global
> > Settings
> > > > or
> > > > > something.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > It's not ideal - true, but it does allow us to be backward
> > > compatible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have other ideas, though, about how to maintain backward
> > > > > > compatibility, I'm definitely open to hear them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Syed Mushtaq <
> > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Hi Mike,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Adding a flag to createSnapshot was the first and the most
> obvious
> > > > thing
> > > > > >> that came to our minds. The problem that I had with this was
> that:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> 1) I feel it is exposing something to the end user that is
> > internal
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > >> cloud.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> 2) We have to follow two different ways of restore/deletion in
> the
> > > > same
> > > > > >> code path depending on where the Snapshot resides which I find
> > kind
> > > > of a
> > > > > >> bad design.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> But if exposing a archive flag to the end user is acceptable
> then
> > we
> > > > can
> > > > > >> definitely use this instead of adding the StorageSnapshot API
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > > >> -Syed
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > >> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > Hi Pierre-Luc,
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > My recommendation would be this:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Add an "archive" flag to the current volume-snapshot API. Its
> > > > default
> > > > > >> would
> > > > > >> > be "false" because that would be backward compatible with how
> > 4.6
> > > > has
> > > > > >> > volume snapshots implemented (i.e. they stay on the SAN in
> 4.6,
> > > 4.7,
> > > > > and
> > > > > >> > 4.8).
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > If you set archive=true, then we would perform a background
> > > > migration
> > > > > of
> > > > > >> > the snapshot from the SAN to the secondary storage (then
> delete
> > > the
> > > > > SAN
> > > > > >> > snapshot).
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > That archive parameter would only be valid for managed
> storage.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Sound reasonable?
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Also, a VM snapshot that includes disks provided by managed
> > > storage
> > > > > >> should
> > > > > >> > work.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Talk to you later,
> > > > > >> > Mike
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Pierre-Luc Dion <
> > > pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > >
> > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > > Mike,
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > In terms of API's, would you prefer introducing a parameter
> to
> > > the
> > > > > >> > existing
> > > > > >> > > VolumeSnapshot, example:   extract={true|false}  with a
> > default
> > > > > value
> > > > > >> of
> > > > > >> > > true  which would extract snapshot into the secondary
> storage,
> > > > which
> > > > > >> is
> > > > > >> > the
> > > > > >> > > current default behavior. Then for SAN snapshot that remain
> on
> > > the
> > > > > >> SAN we
> > > > > >> > > would just set "extract=false" ?  as oppose to create a new
> > > > > >> > >  StorageSnapshot API ?
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > Paul,
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > From what I'm seeing so far, we can't do a VM-snapshot when
> > > using
> > > > > >> managed
> > > > > >> > > storage for VM having more than one Volume. For the reason
> > that
> > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > >> > > are performed outside of the hypervisor awareness and
> > > > > asynchronously.
> > > > > >> If
> > > > > >> > > someone have a way to address that, it would make thinks
> much
> > > more
> > > > > >> > > attractive.
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Ian Rae <irae@cloudops.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > > I think a service provider backup scenario is more likely
> to
> > > > take
> > > > > >> > > advantage
> > > > > >> > > > of SAN snapshot. There are a few reasons for this.
> > Traditional
> > > > > >> backups
> > > > > >> > > > involve access to the file system, and there is an
> > expectation
> > > > > that
> > > > > >> > this
> > > > > >> > > > can be done with reasonably short time frames without
> > > negatively
> > > > > >> > > impacting
> > > > > >> > > > VM performance, and that the backup orchestrator can apply
> > > > various
> > > > > >> > logic
> > > > > >> > > > and or transformations to the data (compress, encrypt,
> > deltas
> > > > > >> etc...).
> > > > > >> > > > While it is true that one could apply a backup process to
> a
> > > > cloud
> > > > > >> > > snapshot,
> > > > > >> > > > this would be slow and inefficient requiring the data to
> be
> > > > moved
> > > > > >> > several
> > > > > >> > > > times and there are some major bottlenecks with cloud
> > > snapshots.
> > > > > >> With a
> > > > > >> > > > cloud snapshot - there seems to be no reasonable
> expectation
> > > of
> > > > > >> being
> > > > > >> > > able
> > > > > >> > > > to do differential snapshots (I think this depends on the
> > > > > >> hypervisor)
> > > > > >> > and
> > > > > >> > > > if you do differential snapshots this will make file
> backups
> > > > from
> > > > > >> those
> > > > > >> > > > snapshots even more complicated to orchestrate.
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > Suspect there needs to be a different thread on how to
> > better
> > > > > enable
> > > > > >> > > > backups, as a service. As per Paul's suggestion, but it
> is a
> > > > > related
> > > > > >> > > > workflow so relevant to this discussion.
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > Ian
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > On Monday, February 8, 2016, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > >> > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com>
> > > > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > To me it sounds like number two and number three are
> > > different
> > > > > >> uses
> > > > > >> > for
> > > > > >> > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > same "thing"(which is totally fine).
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > As for taking a fast SAN snapshot and exporting it
> > > > > >> asynchronously, do
> > > > > >> > > we
> > > > > >> > > > > see the SSVM as performing the export?
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > To be backwards compatible with what we have in 4.6 and
> > > later
> > > > > for
> > > > > >> > > volume
> > > > > >> > > > > snapshots for managed storage, I think it might be
> easier
> > if
> > > > we
> > > > > >> pass
> > > > > >> > > in a
> > > > > >> > > > > flag that says whether or not to archive the SAN
> snapshot
> > > > > (which,
> > > > > >> I
> > > > > >> > > > think,
> > > > > >> > > > > is something that you suggested, as well, Pierre-Luc).
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > On Monday, February 8, 2016, Pierre-Luc Dion <
> > > > > pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > The reason behind the creation of a SAN snapshot which
> > is
> > > > > >> exported
> > > > > >> > > into
> > > > > >> > > > > > secondary storage, is because creating a copy of the
> > .VHD
> > > > > >> directly
> > > > > >> > > > would
> > > > > >> > > > > > impact uptime of the VM as creating that copy take
> lots
> > of
> > > > > time.
> > > > > >> > Has
> > > > > >> > > > > oppose
> > > > > >> > > > > > to a SAN snapshot that is close to instantaneous which
> > can
> > > > > >> > afterward
> > > > > >> > > be
> > > > > >> > > > > > clone into Secondary Storage asynchronously.
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > I would suspect an extracted VolumeSnapshot taken
> from a
> > > SAN
> > > > > >> > snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > could
> > > > > >> > > > > > have is SAN snapshot deleted to avoid duplica and
> space
> > > > > >> consumption
> > > > > >> > > on
> > > > > >> > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > Primary Storage side.
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > I see 3 definitions in our current discussion
> regarding
> > > the
> > > > > term
> > > > > >> > > > snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > > (these are not official terminology but by own
> > > > interpretation
> > > > > of
> > > > > >> > > them):
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > 1. *Snapshot* (AKA: Storage Snapshot / Mike's
> definition
> > > of
> > > > a
> > > > > >> > > > snapshot):
> > > > > >> > > > > > it's a volume snapshot at the storage level, point in
> > time
> > > > of
> > > > > >> your
> > > > > >> > > > data.
> > > > > >> > > > > it
> > > > > >> > > > > > reside on the primary storage. Useful and efficient
> for
> > > > > software
> > > > > >> > side
> > > > > >> > > > > > incident.
> > > > > >> > > > > > 2. *Cloud Snapshot *( AKA: CloudStack VolumeSnapshot/
> > > cloud
> > > > > >> backup
> > > > > >> > > > aws-S3
> > > > > >> > > > > > style ): Point in time copy of the Virtual Disk that
> > > reside
> > > > > on a
> > > > > >> > > > > different
> > > > > >> > > > > > storage array then the original Volume. Facilitate
> data
> > > > > >> migration
> > > > > >> > > > between
> > > > > >> > > > > > clusters and, in case of primary storage incident,
> > Volume
> > > > > >> snapshots
> > > > > >> > > are
> > > > > >> > > > > not
> > > > > >> > > > > > impacted and can be reuse.
> > > > > >> > > > > > 3. *Backup*: Archival of your Virtual-machines data
> that
> > > > also
> > > > > >> > > validate
> > > > > >> > > > > data
> > > > > >> > > > > > integrity, provide a storage efficient archiving
> method
> > > and
> > > > an
> > > > > >> > > > > independent
> > > > > >> > > > > > way to restore your data in case of an major
> > > infrastructure
> > > > > >> > disaster.
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > PL
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> > > > > >> > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com <javascript:;>
> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > So, let's see if I currently follow the
> requirements:
> > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > * Augment volume snapshots for managed storage to
> > > > > >> conditionally
> > > > > >> > > > export
> > > > > >> > > > > > data
> > > > > >> > > > > > > to NFS. The current process of taking a snapshot on
> > the
> > > > SAN
> > > > > is
> > > > > >> > > fine,
> > > > > >> > > > > but
> > > > > >> > > > > > > we'd like the option to export the data to NFS, as
> > well.
> > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Questions:
> > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Once the data has been exported to NFS, do we keep
> the
> > > SAN
> > > > > >> > snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > or
> > > > > >> > > > > > > delete it?
> > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > If we are deleting the SAN snapshot, then why don't
> we
> > > > just
> > > > > >> copy
> > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > VHD
> > > > > >> > > > > > > from primary to secondary the way we do today for
> > > > > non-managed
> > > > > >> > (i.e.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > traditional) storage? Why create a SAN snapshot in
> > that
> > > > > >> scenario?
> > > > > >> > > > > Perhaps
> > > > > >> > > > > > > to have the SSVM mount and perform the VHD copy to
> > > > secondary
> > > > > >> > > storage
> > > > > >> > > > > > > instead of a XenServer host?
> > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks for the clarification.
> > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > By the way, to me a backup is when you copy data
> from
> > > one
> > > > > >> storage
> > > > > >> > > > > system
> > > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > another (regardless of features, if any, to restore
> > the
> > > > data
> > > > > >> in
> > > > > >> > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > future). A snapshot is a point-in-time view of the
> > data
> > > > of a
> > > > > >> > volume
> > > > > >> > > > and
> > > > > >> > > > > > > it's stored on the same storage system as the
> volume.
> > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Pierre-Luc Dion <
> > > > > >> > > pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > That's fun to see that discussion happening. I
> 100%
> > > > agree
> > > > > >> with
> > > > > >> > > > Paul's
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > points of view. VolumeSnapshot are not a backup,
> > but I
> > > > do
> > > > > >> > > consider
> > > > > >> > > > > them
> > > > > >> > > > > > > as
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > a safety vest against Primary Storage failure,
> > because
> > > > > >> failure
> > > > > >> > > > append
> > > > > >> > > > > > > :-( .
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > The current proposal around snapshots that reside
> on
> > > the
> > > > > >> > primary
> > > > > >> > > > > > storage
> > > > > >> > > > > > > or
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > snapshots that end in the Secondary Storage  is
> not
> > to
> > > > > >> address
> > > > > >> > > any
> > > > > >> > > > > kind
> > > > > >> > > > > > > of
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > backups requirement because a snapshot is not a
> > > backup,
> > > > > >> event
> > > > > >> > an
> > > > > >> > > > > > > extracted
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > VM snapshot.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > The main idea, and again this is for managed
> > storage;
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > 1. StorageSnapshotAPI: Provide storage side
> snapshot
> > > > > >> capability
> > > > > >> > > for
> > > > > >> > > > > > fast
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > response time that support rollback to previous
> > > > timestamp,
> > > > > >> > create
> > > > > >> > > > new
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > volume and maybe create template.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >     not required to be a new API if the work is
> > > already
> > > > > >> done, I
> > > > > >> > > > think
> > > > > >> > > > > > > this
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > is a different behaviors than the user expectation
> > of
> > > a
> > > > > >> > > > > > volume-snapshot.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > 2. VolumeSnapshotAPI: Provide current cloudstack
> > > > behavior
> > > > > >> that
> > > > > >> > > > create
> > > > > >> > > > > > an
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > extraction of a volume into SecondaryStorage which
> > can
> > > > be
> > > > > >> reuse
> > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > create a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > new volume into another Primary Storage. This type
> > of
> > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > >> > > is a
> > > > > >> > > > > > slow
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > job since yes it would have to copy the full
> volume
> > > size
> > > > > on
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > > > > Secondary
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > storage.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > PL
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Syed Mushtaq <
> > > > > >> > > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I think I share you view on the 'Ideal world'.
> > > Backup
> > > > > (via
> > > > > >> > > Volume
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Snapshots) is a huge bottleneck in Cloudstack.
> > This
> > > is
> > > > > >> > > amplified
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > especially
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > when you have a object storage as your secondary
> > > > storage
> > > > > >> > > because
> > > > > >> > > > it
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > requires two copies (one to an NFS staging area
> > and
> > > > from
> > > > > >> > there
> > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > object
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > storage). And not to mention that all these
> copies
> > > are
> > > > > >> > > consuming
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > hypervisor
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > resources. Xenserver's Dom0 is also a huge
> > > bottleneck
> > > > as
> > > > > >> all
> > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Network
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > and I/O flow through it. So our intention of
> > > proposing
> > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > "Storage
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Snapshots" is to give a better way of achiving
> > > > snapshots
> > > > > >> > while
> > > > > >> > > > > still
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > keeping the original definition of volume
> > snpashots
> > > > (ie
> > > > > >> > upload
> > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > sec
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > storage).
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > But as Erik pointed out volume snapshots are not
> > > > > backups.
> > > > > >> > They
> > > > > >> > > > > don't
> > > > > >> > > > > > > work
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > form multi-disk LVM volume groups and dynamic
> > > disks. I
> > > > > am
> > > > > >> all
> > > > > >> > > in
> > > > > >> > > > > for
> > > > > >> > > > > > a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > better backup solution which handles these use
> > cases
> > > > and
> > > > > >> > > utilizes
> > > > > >> > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > storage's advanced features.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Paul Angus <
> > > > > >> > > > > > paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> <javascript:;>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In the beginning... there were CloudStack
> > > snapshots
> > > > > and
> > > > > >> > they
> > > > > >> > > > were
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > actually
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > volume snapshots not hypervisor point-in-time
> > > > > snapshots.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Then VM snapshots were created (which are
> > > > > point-in-time
> > > > > >> > > > > hypervisor
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > snapshots) and we started referring to the
> > > original
> > > > > >> > snapshots
> > > > > >> > > > as
> > > > > >> > > > > > > volume
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > snapshots.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > CloudStack does not offer 'backups', but many
> > > people
> > > > > use
> > > > > >> > > volume
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > snapshots
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > as backups. However you can't in-place restore
> > > > volume
> > > > > >> > > snapshots
> > > > > >> > > > > and
> > > > > >> > > > > > > if
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > have a VM with multiple volumes, the volume
> > > > snapshots
> > > > > >> must
> > > > > >> > be
> > > > > >> > > > > done
> > > > > >> > > > > > in
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > series, meaning that the state across all of
> the
> > > > > >> volumes is
> > > > > >> > > > > > unlikely
> > > > > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > consistent.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > 'Actual Backups' would enable all of the
> restore
> > > > > options
> > > > > >> > > which
> > > > > >> > > > > > users
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > might
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > expect as well options as to where they might
> be
> > > > > >> stored. In
> > > > > >> > > my
> > > > > >> > > > > > ideal
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > world
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > they would also be able to leverage back-end
> > > > hardware
> > > > > >> (such
> > > > > >> > > as
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > Solidfire,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > NetApp etc :) ) and software such as Veeam,
> > > > Commvault
> > > > > >> etc
> > > > > >> > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > accelerate
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > process.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > [image: ShapeBlue] <http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Paul Angus
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > VP Technology ,  ShapeBlue
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > d:  *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44 203 603 0540*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>
> > |
> > > > > >> > > > > m:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *+44 7711 418784* <+44%207711%20418784>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > e:  *paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > |
> > > > > >> > > > > t: @cloudyangus*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>%20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus>
> > > > > >> > > > > > |  w:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *www.shapeblue.com* <http://www.shapeblue.com
> >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > a:  53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden London
> WC2N
> > > 4HS
> > > > UK
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Shape Blue Ltd is a company incorporated in
> > > England
> > > > &
> > > > > >> > Wales.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Services India LLP is a company incorporated
> in
> > > > India
> > > > > >> and
> > > > > >> > is
> > > > > >> > > > > > operated
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > under
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil
> > > > > >> Consultoria
> > > > > >> > > Ltda
> > > > > >> > > > > is
> > > > > >> > > > > > a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > company incorporated in Brasil and is operated
> > > under
> > > > > >> > license
> > > > > >> > > > from
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Shape
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company
> > > > registered
> > > > > >> by
> > > > > >> > The
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Republic
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > South Africa and is traded under license from
> > > Shape
> > > > > Blue
> > > > > >> > Ltd.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > a registered trademark.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > This email and any attachments to it may be
> > > > > confidential
> > > > > >> > and
> > > > > >> > > > are
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > intended
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > solely for the use of the individual to whom
> it
> > is
> > > > > >> > addressed.
> > > > > >> > > > Any
> > > > > >> > > > > > > views
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > opinions expressed are solely those of the
> > author
> > > > and
> > > > > do
> > > > > >> > not
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > necessarily
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or related
> > > > > companies.
> > > > > >> If
> > > > > >> > > you
> > > > > >> > > > > are
> > > > > >> > > > > > > not
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > intended recipient of this email, you must
> > neither
> > > > > take
> > > > > >> any
> > > > > >> > > > > action
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > based
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > upon its contents, nor copy or show it to
> > anyone.
> > > > > Please
> > > > > >> > > > contact
> > > > > >> > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > sender
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > if you believe you have received this email in
> > > > error.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > From: Syed Mushtaq [mailto:
> > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;> <javascript:;>]
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 4:58 PM
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature] Storage
> > > > Snapshots
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Paul,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > When you say actual backups, how would it be
> > > > different
> > > > > >> from
> > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Volume
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Snapshots that exist currently. My
> understanding
> > > is
> > > > > that
> > > > > >> > > > Backups
> > > > > >> > > > > > end
> > > > > >> > > > > > > up
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sec Storage whereas Snapshots are just a
> > > > point-in-time
> > > > > >> > state
> > > > > >> > > of
> > > > > >> > > > > > your
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > volume
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > which can be restored back correct?
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -Syed
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Paul Angus <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Syed,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > As I understand it, the SolidFire plugin
> will
> > > > export
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > > > snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > secondary storage if the user requests a
> > > template
> > > > > from
> > > > > >> > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > or
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > wants to download the snapshot from the
> cloud.
> > > > This
> > > > > >> is a
> > > > > >> > > > good,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > pragmatic approach and yes Mike the
> SolidFire
> > > > > storage
> > > > > >> is
> > > > > >> > > > super
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > reliable and snapshots on SolidFire arrays
> > take
> > > up
> > > > > >> next
> > > > > >> > to
> > > > > >> > > no
> > > > > >> > > > > > > space.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > BUT I think that we are talking about a more
> > > > general
> > > > > >> > > purpose
> > > > > >> > > > > API,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > and
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > other storage systems may not be as awesome
> as
> > > > > Mike's.
> > > > > >> > > That's
> > > > > >> > > > > my
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > concern. Also, the time to transfer for say
> > 1TB
> > > to
> > > > > >> move
> > > > > >> > > from
> > > > > >> > > > > > > primary
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > to sec storage and then create a VM template
> > out
> > > > of
> > > > > it
> > > > > >> > may
> > > > > >> > > be
> > > > > >> > > > > too
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > long
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > for users.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > @Mike I don’t think 'we' use the term volume
> > > > > snapshot
> > > > > >> for
> > > > > >> > > > > backup,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > just that users want to do backups and a
> > volume
> > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > >> > is
> > > > > >> > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > only
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > type of snapshot that copies the disk
> > elsewhere
> > > > and
> > > > > >> can
> > > > > >> > be
> > > > > >> > > > > > > scheduled.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I'm 'pondering' the implications of enabling
> > > > actual
> > > > > >> > backups
> > > > > >> > > > > > > (through
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > recognised backup providers) and the user
> > > > > requirements
> > > > > >> > > around
> > > > > >> > > > > > them
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > (particularly restoration use cases) as a
> > > separate
> > > > > >> thread
> > > > > >> > > of
> > > > > >> > > > > > work.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [image: ShapeBlue] <
> http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > Paul
> > > > > >> Angus
> > > > > >> > > VP
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > Technology
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > , ShapeBlue
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > d: *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44 203 603 0540*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>
> > > > > >> > > > |
> > > > > >> > > > > m:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > *+44 7711 418784* <+44%207711%20418784>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > e: *paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > <javascript:;> |
> > > > > >> > > > > t: @cloudyangus*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > %20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus> | w:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > *www.shapeblue.com* <
> http://www.shapeblue.com
> > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > a: 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden London
> WC2N
> > > 4HS
> > > > > UK
> > > > > >> > Shape
> > > > > >> > > > > Blue
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Ltd
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > is a company incorporated in England &
> Wales.
> > > > > >> ShapeBlue
> > > > > >> > > > > Services
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > India
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > LLP is a company incorporated in India and
> is
> > > > > operated
> > > > > >> > > under
> > > > > >> > > > > > > license
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil
> > > Consultoria
> > > > > >> Ltda
> > > > > >> > is
> > > > > >> > > a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > company
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > incorporated in Brasil and is operated under
> > > > license
> > > > > >> from
> > > > > >> > > > Shape
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Blue
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company
> > > registered
> > > > by
> > > > > >> The
> > > > > >> > > > > Republic
> > > > > >> > > > > > > of
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > South Africa and is traded under license
> from
> > > > Shape
> > > > > >> Blue
> > > > > >> > > Ltd.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ShapeBlue is a registered trademark.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > This email and any attachments to it may be
> > > > > >> confidential
> > > > > >> > > and
> > > > > >> > > > > are
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > intended solely for the use of the
> individual
> > to
> > > > > whom
> > > > > >> it
> > > > > >> > is
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > addressed.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Any views or opinions expressed are solely
> > those
> > > > of
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > > author
> > > > > >> > > > > > and
> > > > > >> > > > > > > do
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > not necessarily represent those of Shape
> Blue
> > > Ltd
> > > > or
> > > > > >> > > related
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > companies. If you are not the intended
> > recipient
> > > > of
> > > > > >> this
> > > > > >> > > > email,
> > > > > >> > > > > > you
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > must neither take any action based upon its
> > > > > contents,
> > > > > >> nor
> > > > > >> > > > copy
> > > > > >> > > > > or
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > show
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > it to anyone. Please contact the sender if
> you
> > > > > believe
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> > > > have
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > received
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > this email in error.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > From: Syed Mushtaq [mailto:
> > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>]
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: 05 February 2016 15:31
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature] Storage
> > > > > Snapshots
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I think the terminology confusion comes from
> > AWS
> > > > > where
> > > > > >> > they
> > > > > >> > > > do
> > > > > >> > > > > > EBS
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > snapshots backed up to S3 and CloudStack
> sort
> > of
> > > > > >> followed
> > > > > >> > > > that.
> > > > > >> > > > > > And
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > as
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > an end user who is oblivious to the
> internals
> > of
> > > > my
> > > > > >> > > provider,
> > > > > >> > > > > my
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > expectation would be something similar to
> what
> > > AWS
> > > > > as
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > > is
> > > > > >> > > > > my
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > biggest reference point.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > To your point Mike, I agree that a Primary
> > > Storage
> > > > > >> > failure
> > > > > >> > > on
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > SolidFire is unlikely, there are other
> > > motivations
> > > > > >> for us
> > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > push
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > data
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > to secondary storage. Primary storage
> (atleast
> > > for
> > > > > us)
> > > > > >> > > costs
> > > > > >> > > > > > > around 3
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > times as much as secondary storage and
> > snapshots
> > > > on
> > > > > >> > primary
> > > > > >> > > > > > storage
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > are rarely used (especially for some of our
> > > > > customers
> > > > > >> who
> > > > > >> > > do
> > > > > >> > > > > > daily
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > backups).
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Mike
> > Tutkowski
> > > <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > >> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the weirdness is around
> terminology.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > For most systems I've worked on, a
> snapshot
> > > and
> > > > a
> > > > > >> > backup
> > > > > >> > > > are
> > > > > >> > > > > > two
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > completely different things (but
> CloudStack
> > > has
> > > > > >> > > > traditionally
> > > > > >> > > > > > > used
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the term "volume snapshot" to mean
> backup).
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > I will put in a SolidFire "plug" here and
> > say,
> > > > > >> though,
> > > > > >> > > that
> > > > > >> > > > > if
> > > > > >> > > > > > > your
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > primary storage is running on SolidFire
> that
> > > it
> > > > is
> > > > > >> > > unlikely
> > > > > >> > > > > > > you'll
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > encounter an issue where your primary
> > storage
> > > > goes
> > > > > >> > > offline
> > > > > >> > > > > (and
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > you'll even maintain your performance
> > > guarantees
> > > > > >> during
> > > > > >> > > > > failure
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > scenarios and upgrades, as well). That
> being
> > > the
> > > > > >> case,
> > > > > >> > it
> > > > > >> > > > is
> > > > > >> > > > > > less
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > useful to require a backup to Swift (but
> > it's
> > > > > >> perfectly
> > > > > >> > > OK
> > > > > >> > > > if
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > that's
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > what we want to do
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > here).
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:07 AM, Syed
> Mushtaq
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe with the current
> implementation
> > of
> > > > > >> > Snapshots
> > > > > >> > > on
> > > > > >> > > > > > > managed
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > storage
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > (SolidFire) the snapshots are never
> > exported
> > > > to
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > > > secondary
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > storage.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > While this solves the problem of having
> > > > > snapshots
> > > > > >> > > taking
> > > > > >> > > > > > > forever
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > to get to sec storage, this leaves us
> > with a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > huge
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > liability if our primary storage goes
> > down.
> > > We
> > > > > see
> > > > > >> > > > > snapshots
> > > > > >> > > > > > as
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > our recovery path because we store them
> in
> > > > Swift
> > > > > >> > which
> > > > > >> > > is
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > reliable
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and resilient to failures.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > With Storage snpashots our goal is to
> have
> > > > > Volume
> > > > > >> > > > snapshots
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > always
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > backed up to secondary storage and
> Storage
> > > > > >> Snapshots
> > > > > >> > > stay
> > > > > >> > > > > on
> > > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > primary
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > storage.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > A provider could potentially mix both
> > these
> > > > and
> > > > > >> solve
> > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > problem
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > that you mentioned where you want to
> meet
> > > > user's
> > > > > >> > > > > expectation
> > > > > >> > > > > > > of a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > snapshot (ie backup to sec storage)
> while
> > > > having
> > > > > >> an
> > > > > >> > > > ability
> > > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > utilize faster sanpshots (i.e. on the
> > > device)
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this clarifies things.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -Syed
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Paul
> Angus
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > HI guys,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could someone point me to the Jira bug
> > of
> > > FS
> > > > > for
> > > > > >> > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > SAN-snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > feature
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 4.6 which is mentioned.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From my discussions with users and
> > > operators
> > > > > >> around
> > > > > >> > > > > > snapshots
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd make
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > following observations:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a. 'users' use snapshots as backups
> > (both
> > > > > >> long-term
> > > > > >> > > and
> > > > > >> > > > > > short
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > term)
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the expectation that they can use them
> > for
> > > > > >> recovery
> > > > > >> > > if
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > required.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > b. operators fall back to snapshots if
> > > > > something
> > > > > >> > has
> > > > > >> > > > gone
> > > > > >> > > > > > > wrong
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with primary storage.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > c. users sometimes want to be able to
> > > export
> > > > > >> > > snapshots
> > > > > >> > > > as
> > > > > >> > > > > > > well
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > create
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > new VMs from their snapshots
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > d. snapshots are a currently a massive
> > > pain
> > > > > for
> > > > > >> > > > > operators,
> > > > > >> > > > > > I
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know at
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > least
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > one public cloud who have snapshots
> > which
> > > > > take 2
> > > > > >> > days
> > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > complete.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > e. snapshots (as they are) can't be
> used
> > > for
> > > > > >> > multiple
> > > > > >> > > > LVM
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > disks.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the process Mike has used in
> the
> > > > > >> SolidFire
> > > > > >> > > > plugin
> > > > > >> > > > > > > (only
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > moving
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > disk image to secondary storage when
> you
> > > > > >> absolutely
> > > > > >> > > > have
> > > > > >> > > > > > to)
> > > > > >> > > > > > > is
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a very
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > good
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and pragmatic solution. I wonder what
> > > > problems
> > > > > >> an
> > > > > >> > > > > operator
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > might
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > experience
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if they have an issue with a given
> > primary
> > > > > >> storage
> > > > > >> > > pool
> > > > > >> > > > > in
> > > > > >> > > > > > a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > cluster.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > (I
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know that that is REALLY unlikely in
> the
> > > > > >> SolidFire
> > > > > >> > > case
> > > > > >> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >> > > > > > > :)
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) And
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > if
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the transfer from primary to secondary
> > is
> > > > > slow,
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > > time
> > > > > >> > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > being able
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > create a template or export the volume
> > > will
> > > > be
> > > > > >> > slow.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So for me the issue is around making
> > sure
> > > > that
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > end
> > > > > >> > > > > > users
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > expectations
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > are met (while improving the
> > > > speed/efficiency
> > > > > of
> > > > > >> > the
> > > > > >> > > > back
> > > > > >> > > > > > > end)
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [image: ShapeBlue] <
> > > > http://www.shapeblue.com>
> > > > > >> Paul
> > > > > >> > > > Angus
> > > > > >> > > > > > VP
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Technology , ShapeBlue
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > d: *+44 203 617 0528 | s: +44 203 603
> > > 0540*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > <+44%20203%20617%200528%20%7C%20s:%20+44%20203%20603%200540>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > |
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > m:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *+44 7711 418784*
> <+44%207711%20418784>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > e: *paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;> | t:
> > > > > >> > > > > > @cloudyangus*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > %20%7C%20t:%20@cloudyangus> | w:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *www.shapeblue.com* <
> > > > http://www.shapeblue.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a: 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden
> > London
> > > > WC2N
> > > > > >> 4HS
> > > > > >> > UK
> > > > > >> > > > > Shape
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > Blue
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ltd is a company incorporated in
> > England &
> > > > > >> Wales.
> > > > > >> > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Services India LLP is a company
> > > incorporated
> > > > > in
> > > > > >> > India
> > > > > >> > > > and
> > > > > >> > > > > > is
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > operated
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > under
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape
> Blue
> > > > Brasil
> > > > > >> > > > > Consultoria
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Ltda
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is a company incorporated in Brasil
> and
> > is
> > > > > >> operated
> > > > > >> > > > under
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > license from Shape Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue
> > SA
> > > > Pty
> > > > > >> Ltd
> > > > > >> > is
> > > > > >> > > a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > company
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > registered by The Republic
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > South Africa and is traded under
> license
> > > > from
> > > > > >> Shape
> > > > > >> > > > Blue
> > > > > >> > > > > > Ltd.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ShapeBlue
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a registered trademark.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This email and any attachments to it
> may
> > > be
> > > > > >> > > > confidential
> > > > > >> > > > > > and
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > intended
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > solely for the use of the individual
> to
> > > whom
> > > > > it
> > > > > >> is
> > > > > >> > > > > > addressed.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any views
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > opinions expressed are solely those of
> > the
> > > > > >> author
> > > > > >> > and
> > > > > >> > > > do
> > > > > >> > > > > > not
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > necessarily
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or
> > > related
> > > > > >> > > companies.
> > > > > >> > > > > If
> > > > > >> > > > > > > you
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > are not
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > intended recipient of this email, you
> > must
> > > > > >> neither
> > > > > >> > > take
> > > > > >> > > > > any
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > action
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > based
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > upon its contents, nor copy or show it
> > to
> > > > > >> anyone.
> > > > > >> > > > Please
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > contact
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > sender
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you believe you have received this
> > > email
> > > > in
> > > > > >> > error.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Pierre-Luc Dion [mailto:
> > > > > >> pdion@cloudops.com
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > <javascript:;>]
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 12:56
> PM
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Propose][New Feature]
> > > Storage
> > > > > >> > Snapshots
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea of introducing a new API:
> > > > > >> StorageSnapshot
> > > > > >> > > for
> > > > > >> > > > > > > managed
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > storage
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the VolumeSnapshot default, or
> > > > > expected,
> > > > > >> > > > behavior
> > > > > >> > > > > > is
> > > > > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > archive snapshots into the Secondary
> > > > Storage.
> > > > > >> So a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > StorageSnapshot API would be
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > snapshot that remain on the managed
> > > storage
> > > > > >> > > appliance.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quickly looking at the API doc and I
> > don't
> > > > > see a
> > > > > >> > > strong
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > requirement for volume snapshots to be
> > > moved
> > > > > >> into
> > > > > >> > > > > secondary
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > storage. So, maybe StorageSnapshot API
> > is
> > > > not
> > > > > >> > useful,
> > > > > >> > > > but
> > > > > >> > > > > > > both
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > use cases are required. A snapshot
> that
> > > > remain
> > > > > >> on
> > > > > >> > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > managed
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > storage, and another type of
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that end up into the secondary
> storage.
> > > > Since
> > > > > >> > you've
> > > > > >> > > > > done a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > lot
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > work,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > might easier to just add a parameter
> to
> > > the
> > > > > >> current
> > > > > >> > > > > > snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > API
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > would
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > trigger an extraction of the storage
> > > > snapshot
> > > > > >> into
> > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > secondary
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > storage?
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > PL
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Mike
> > > > > Tutkowski <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that all sounds reasonable
> > then
> > > -
> > > > > >> thanks!
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Syed
> > > > > Mushtaq <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> <javascript:;>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> You are correct Mike in terms of
> the
> > > > > >> > requirements.
> > > > > >> > > > One
> > > > > >> > > > > > of
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > our
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > earlier
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> iterations on this was to have an
> > > > argument
> > > > > to
> > > > > >> > the
> > > > > >> > > > > create
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > API
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> which decides whether to backup the
> > > > volume
> > > > > to
> > > > > >> > sec
> > > > > >> > > > > > storage
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> we realized it would make
> management
> > of
> > > > > >> > snapshots
> > > > > >> > > > > quite
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > messy
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> so we proposed a new api instead.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016, 8:29 PM Mike
> > > > Tutkowski
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> <mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Hi,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Just to make sure I understand all
> > the
> > > > > >> > > requirements
> > > > > >> > > > > > here:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 1) This relates only to managed
> > > storage
> > > > > (1:1
> > > > > >> > > > mapping
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > between
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> a virtual disk and a backend SAN
> > > > volume).
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 2) We want to take the current
> > > > (introduced
> > > > > >> in
> > > > > >> > > 4.6)
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> functionality, which creates a
> > > snapshot
> > > > on
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > SAN,
> > > > > >> > > > > and
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> extend it via a config option (or
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> something) to not only take the
> SAN
> > > > > >> snapshot,
> > > > > >> > but
> > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > copy
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> the underlying VHD (XenServer
> only)
> > to
> > > > > NFS.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 3) The SAN snapshot is always
> taken.
> > > > It's
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > > backup
> > > > > >> > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > NFS
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> that is optional.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 4) Templates can be created from
> the
> > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > that's
> > > > > >> > > > > on
> > > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> SAN (already works).
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 5) CloudStack volumes can be
> created
> > > > from
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > > > snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> that's on
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> SAN (already works as long as the
> > new
> > > > > >> > CloudStack
> > > > > >> > > > > volume
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > ends
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> up on the same primary storage).
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Would we have a need for a storage
> > > > > snapshot
> > > > > >> API
> > > > > >> > > > then
> > > > > >> > > > > or
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> would that just be the standard
> > volume
> > > > > >> snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > without
> > > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> backup to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > NFS?
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Thanks!
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Mike
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 5:24 PM,
> Syed
> > > > > Mushtaq
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> <syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Is it possible to have both
> > > > > functionalities
> > > > > >> > > > > (snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > > on
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> SAN & Sec
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Storage) coexist? Because
> Ideally,
> > we
> > > > > would
> > > > > >> > like
> > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > have
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > both.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> For example, some of our
> customers
> > > want
> > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > implement
> > > > > >> > > > > > > their
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> own backup strategies and do
> > > encryption
> > > > > to
> > > > > >> > their
> > > > > >> > > > > > backups
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> which is a perfect use case for
> > > Storage
> > > > > >> > Snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > while
> > > > > >> > > > > > > our
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> other customers will still keep
> > using
> > > > the
> > > > > >> > > standard
> > > > > >> > > > > > > volume
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > snapshot.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> To keep things backward
> compatible,
> > > we
> > > > > can
> > > > > >> > add a
> > > > > >> > > > > > setting
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> which
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > says
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to not upload on secondary
> storage,
> > > > > >> because,
> > > > > >> > > after
> > > > > >> > > > > > all,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> would take a SAN snapshot first
> > when
> > > > > doing
> > > > > >> a
> > > > > >> > > > Volume
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Snapshot.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> You could stop the process there
> > and
> > > > not
> > > > > do
> > > > > >> > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > upload.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> What do you think about this
> > > approach?
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Thanks,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> -Syed
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 4:25 PM,
> > Mike
> > > > > >> > Tutkowski <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> So, this is just me thinking out
> > > load
> > > > > >> here,
> > > > > >> > but
> > > > > >> > > > if
> > > > > >> > > > > a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > given
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> CloudStack cloud doesn't
> actually
> > > need
> > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > provide
> > > > > >> > > > > > both
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ability
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> to take a SAN snapshot and
> export
> > it
> > > > to
> > > > > >> NFS
> > > > > >> > (if
> > > > > >> > > > > just
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> taking a SAN snapshot is OK),
> then
> > > we
> > > > > >> might
> > > > > >> > be
> > > > > >> > > > able
> > > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> away with no new
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > API
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> calls and simply implement a new
> > > > custom
> > > > > >> > > snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > > > strategy
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> and
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > data
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> motion strategy to handle the
> case
> > > > where
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> cloud
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > does
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> want both a SAN snapshot and
> > > > > >> exported-to-NFS
> > > > > >> > > > > backup.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> In other words, the "default"
> > > behavior
> > > > > >> would
> > > > > >> > be
> > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > use
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> snapshot strategy and data
> motion
> > > > > strategy
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > > > we
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > already
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> have (the one that only takes a
> > SAN
> > > > > >> > snapshot).
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> If your CloudStack cloud,
> however,
> > > > wants
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >> > > take
> > > > > >> > > > a
> > > > > >> > > > > > SAN
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> snapshot and have the data
> > exported
> > > to
> > > > > >> NFS,
> > > > > >> > > then
> > > > > >> > > > we
> > > > > >> > > > > > > could
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> have you manipulate a Swing
> config
> > > > file
> > > > > to
> > > > > >> > make
> > > > > >> > > > use
> > > > > >> > > > > > of
> > > > > >> > > > > > > a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> new snapshot strategy and data
> > > motion
> > > > > >> > strategy
> > > > > >> > > > that
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> performs both of these
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > activities.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> This way, the old behavior is
> > still
> > > > the
> > > > > >> > default
> > > > > >> > > > for
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > users,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> but CloudStack admins can change
> > > this
> > > > > >> > behavior
> > > > > >> > > > via
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > configuration.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Thoughts?
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 11:55 AM,
> > > Mike
> > > > > >> > > Tutkowski <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Right...I think we will need to
> > > come
> > > > up
> > > > > >> > with a
> > > > > >> > > > > > viable
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> upgrade path or some reasonable
> > way
> > > > for
> > > > > >> them
> > > > > >> > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > move
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> the old way to the new way (and
> > > some
> > > > > >> obvious
> > > > > >> > > way
> > > > > >> > > > > > that
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> they will know they need
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > do this).
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 11:45
> AM,
> > > Syed
> > > > > >> > Mushtaq
> > > > > >> > > <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I'm not really sure about the
> > > > upgrade
> > > > > >> path
> > > > > >> > > > > however,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> customers who are using 4.6
> and
> > > are
> > > > > on a
> > > > > >> > > > managed
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > storage
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> would no longer have the same
> > > > > >> functionality
> > > > > >> > > > with
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Volume
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Snapshots.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 1:43
> PM,
> > > Syed
> > > > > >> > Mushtaq
> > > > > >> > > <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> So if I understand correctly,
> > > > > currently
> > > > > >> > > > taking a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > Volume
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Snapshots of a volume on a
> > > managed
> > > > > >> storage
> > > > > >> > > > keeps
> > > > > >> > > > > > it
> > > > > >> > > > > > > on
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> the storage array. As a part
> of
> > > > this
> > > > > >> > > feature,
> > > > > >> > > > we
> > > > > >> > > > > > can
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> make sure
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Volume Snapshots on managed
> > > storage
> > > > > are
> > > > > >> > > > uploaded
> > > > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> secondary storage. This would
> > > make
> > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > Volume
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> feature behave the same
> > > regardless
> > > > of
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > > > storage
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> (managed or
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> non-managed) And, for
> utilizing
> > > the
> > > > > >> > > efficient
> > > > > >> > > > > > > backend
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> storage
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > capabilities, we can use the new
> storage
> > > > > >> snapshots
> > > > > >> > > API.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 1:36
> PM,
> > > > Mike
> > > > > >> > > > Tutkowski <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Whatever we do here, we need
> > to
> > > > > have a
> > > > > >> > plan
> > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > deal
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> with the fact that we
> already
> > > > have a
> > > > > >> > > feature
> > > > > >> > > > > (in
> > > > > >> > > > > > > 4.6
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> later) that allows you to
> use
> > > the
> > > > > >> > existing
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> volume-snapshot APIs to
> > create a
> > > > > >> volume
> > > > > >> > > > > snapshot
> > > > > >> > > > > > > (for
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> managed
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> storage) that resides on a
> > > backend
> > > > > SAN
> > > > > >> > > > (using a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > custom
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> snapshot strategy and a
> custom
> > > > data
> > > > > >> > motion
> > > > > >> > > > > > > strategy).
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> If these new APIs go in,
> then
> > > how
> > > > > >> should
> > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > original
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> implementation (present in
> 4.6
> > > and
> > > > > >> later)
> > > > > >> > > be
> > > > > >> > > > > > > changed?
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> If it
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> changed, how do we support
> > > > customers
> > > > > >> who
> > > > > >> > > are
> > > > > >> > > > > > > already
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> using
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> original volume-snapshot API
> > to
> > > > take
> > > > > >> > > > snapshots
> > > > > >> > > > > > on a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> backend
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > SAN?
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Mike
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 11:27
> > AM,
> > > > > Will
> > > > > >> > > > Stevens <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> wstevens@cloudops.com
> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Will you be able to create
> a
> > > > > Template
> > > > > >> > > from a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > StorageSnapshot?
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> If yes, will the template
> be
> > > > stored
> > > > > >> in
> > > > > >> > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > secondary
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> storage like normal
> templates
> > > or
> > > > > will
> > > > > >> > that
> > > > > >> > > > be
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > handled
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> somehow on the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > vendor side?
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Will STEVENS*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Lead Developer
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *CloudOps* *| *Cloud
> > Solutions
> > > > > >> Experts
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal
> *|*
> > > > Quebec
> > > > > >> *|*
> > > > > >> > > H3J
> > > > > >> > > > > 1S6
> > > > > >> > > > > > w
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> cloudops.com *|* tw
> > @CloudOps_
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 1:22
> > PM,
> > > > > Syed
> > > > > >> > > > Mushtaq <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> syed1.mushtaq@gmail.com
> > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Will!!!
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at
> 1:19
> > > PM,
> > > > > Will
> > > > > >> > > > Stevens
> > > > > >> > > > > <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wstevens@cloudops.com
> > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I explicitly linked the
> > > Design
> > > > > >> Spec in
> > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > Jira
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> ticket because it was not
> > > clear
> > > > > in
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > > > > 'mention'
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> section because it shows
> > as a
> > > > > page
> > > > > >> > 'you
> > > > > >> > > do
> > > > > >> > > > > not
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > permission to'.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> *Will STEVENS*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Lead Developer
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> *CloudOps* *| *Cloud
> > > Solutions
> > > > > >> Experts
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal
> > *|*
> > > > > Quebec
> > > > > >> > *|*
> > > > > >> > > > H3J
> > > > > >> > > > > > 1S6
> > > > > >> > > > > > > w
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> cloudops.com *|* tw
> > > @CloudOps_
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at
> 1:02
> > > PM,
> > > > > >> Syed
> > > > > >> > > Ahmed
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> <sahmed@cloudops.com
> > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Design Spec:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Sto
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> rageSnapshot++API
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jira Ticket
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-9
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 27
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 8
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> We plan to propose a new
> > set
> > > > of
> > > > > >> APIs
> > > > > >> > to
> > > > > >> > > > do
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots on managed
> > storage
> > > > > >> backends
> > > > > >> > > > like
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > SolidFire.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Snapshots on current
> > managed
> > > > > >> storage
> > > > > >> > > stay
> > > > > >> > > > > on
> > > > > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> device which is contrary
> > to
> > > > what
> > > > > >> > > > CloudStack
> > > > > >> > > > > > > calls
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > snpshots.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> But taking snapshots on
> > > > storage
> > > > > >> and
> > > > > >> > > > keeping
> > > > > >> > > > > > it
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> there has its own
> > advantages
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> we would ideally like to
> > > have
> > > > > both
> > > > > >> > ways
> > > > > >> > > > of
> > > > > >> > > > > > > doing
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots. This proposal
> > > adds
> > > > 4
> > > > > >> new
> > > > > >> > > APIs
> > > > > >> > > > to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > create
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots on backend
> > > storage.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guys think
> of
> > > this
> > > > > >> > > feature? I
> > > > > >> > > > > > would
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> love to have some
> > feedback.
> > > I
> > > > am
> > > > > >> > > working
> > > > > >> > > > on
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > making
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the design
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > spec
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> more concrete but wanted
> > to
> > > > > have a
> > > > > >> > high
> > > > > >> > > > > level
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback first before
> > > starting
> > > > > to
> > > > > >> > work
> > > > > >> > > on
> > > > > >> > > > > it.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -Syed
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> *Senior CloudStack
> Developer,
> > > > > >> SolidFire
> > > > > >> > > Inc.*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> e:
> > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > >> > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Advancing the way the world
> > uses
> > > > the
> > > > > >> > cloud
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >*™
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> *
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> --
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > > > SolidFire
> > > > > >> > Inc.*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> e:
> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > >> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Advancing the way the world
> uses
> > > the
> > > > > >> cloud
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> <
> > > > > >> > > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >*™*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> --
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > > > SolidFire
> > > > > >> Inc.*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > >> > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Advancing the way the world uses
> > the
> > > > > cloud
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> <
> > > > > >> > > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >*™*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> --
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > > SolidFire
> > > > > >> Inc.*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Advancing the way the world uses
> the
> > > > cloud
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> <
> > > > > >> > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > >> > > > > > >*™*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer,
> > SolidFire
> > > > > Inc.*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > >> <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the
> > > cloud
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > >> > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > >> > > > > >*™*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our
> > > range
> > > > of
> > > > > >> > > > CloudStack
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > related
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > services:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > >> > http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//>
> > > > > >> > > |
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > CSForge –
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > rapid IaaS deployment framework <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/csforge/
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Consulting
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> |
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Software Engineering
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > >> > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Infrastructure Support
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > >> > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > |
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Bootcamp Training Courses
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire
> > Inc.*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > > > > >> > >*™*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range
> of
> > > > > >> CloudStack
> > > > > >> > > > > related
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > services:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> |
> > > > > >> > > > > CSForge –
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > rapid
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > IaaS deployment framework <
> > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/csforge/
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Consulting <
> > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > |
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Software Engineering
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Infrastructure Support
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > |
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Bootcamp Training Courses <
> > > > > >> > > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range of
> > > > > >> CloudStack
> > > > > >> > > > related
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > services:
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > IaaS Cloud Design & Build
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//
> > > > >
> > > > > |
> > > > > >> > > > CSForge –
> > > > > >> > > > > > > rapid
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > IaaS deployment framework <
> > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/csforge/>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Consulting <
> > > > > >> > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > |
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Software Engineering
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > CloudStack Infrastructure Support
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/>
> > > > > >> > |
> > > > > >> > > > > > > CloudStack
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Bootcamp Training Courses <
> > > > > >> > > > > > http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > > > --
> > > > > >> > > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > >> > > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > >> > > > > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play
> > >*™*
> > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > --
> > > > > >> > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > >> > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > >> > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > >> > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > >> > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > >> > > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > --
> > > > > >> > > > Ian Rae
> > > > > >> > > > CEO | PDG
> > > > > >> > > > c: 514.944.4008
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > CloudOps | Cloud Infrastructure and Networking Solutions
> > > > > >> > > > www.cloudops.com | 420 rue Guy | Montreal | Canada | H3J
> > 1S6
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > --
> > > > > >> > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > >> > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > >> > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > >> > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > >> > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > >> > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> > > <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *Mike Tutkowski*
> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> o: 303.746.7302
> Advancing the way the world uses the cloud
> <http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>*™*
>

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