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From Animesh Chaturvedi <animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com>
Subject RE: CloudStack Quality Process
Date Wed, 10 Dec 2014 02:51:37 GMT
I can setup a GTM since it is free for Citrix. 

Here are the details. 

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pierre-Luc Dion [mailto:pdion@cloudops.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 11:16 AM
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Cc: Steve Wilson
> Subject: Re: CloudStack Quality Process
> 
> Based on Doodle. Meeting  is schedule for  Dec 10th, 17h00 UTC.  freenode:
> #cloudstack-meeting unless someone have a GTM.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Daan Hoogland <daan.hoogland@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > When do we call the result of the doodle? wait for wednesday?
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 5:46 PM, Chip Childers
> > <chipchilders@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > Thanks for listening to my concerns folks...  and I'll be rooting
> > > for
> > those
> > > of you that are "doing" to come up with some better practices for
> > > the community to adopt!
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Animesh Chaturvedi <
> > > animesh.chaturvedi@citrix.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Agreed
> > >>
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: williamstevens@gmail.com [mailto:williamstevens@gmail.com]
> > >> > On Behalf Of Will Stevens
> > >> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 2:41 PM
> > >> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > >> > Cc: Steve Wilson
> > >> > Subject: Re: CloudStack Quality Process
> > >> >
> > >> > I am speaking as a committer who has limited insight into the
> > 'correct'
> > >> way to do
> > >> > this via Apache (so be gentle).  :)
> > >> >
> > >> > I like the idea of a wiki page to help get everyone on the same
> > >> > page
> > and
> > >> to track
> > >> > the consensus as we move forward...
> > >> >
> > >> > I also agree that it is hard to come to a consensus on the list
> > because
> > >> it is really
> > >> > hard to have a constructive conversation on here in a timely
> > >> > manner
> > >> where the
> > >> > different voices can be heard.
> > >> >
> > >> > I think it would be interesting to schedule sessions/meetings on
> > >> > the
> > >> list so any
> > >> > interested party can join.  These sessions/meetings would happen
> > >> > in a
> > >> format
> > >> > like IRC where the transcript of the session can be later posted
> > >> > to
> > the
> > >> list as well
> > >> > as a summary of the transcript so it can be reviewed by any
> > >> > member who
> > >> could
> > >> > not make the meeting.  This way we keep all of the actual
> > >> > conversation
> > >> in the
> > >> > list, but we also make it easier to actually have a
> > >> > 'conversation' at
> > >> the same time.
> > >> > It is hard to beat real time when working through this sort of stuff.
> > >> >
> > >> > Does this make sense to others?  Thoughts?
> > >> >
> > >> > Will
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > *Will STEVENS*
> > >> > Lead Developer
> > >> >
> > >> > *CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
> > >> > 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6 w cloudops.com
> > >> > *|* tw @CloudOps_
> > >> >
> > >> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Animesh Chaturvedi <
> > >> > animesh.chaturvedi@citrix.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Wearing my PMC hat and with past experience on these
> > >> > > discussions we have not made much progress on mailing list
> > >> > > despite agreeing on the goals and have locked horns. One
> > >> > > possibility after reading Chip's email and concerns I see is
> > >> > > that, we create a wiki outlining the problem space, possible
> > >> > > solution(s) and their specific pros and cons and have people
> > >> collaborate.
> > >> > > Once a general consensus is there and wiki is stable we can
> > >> > > bring it back to the mailing list for final approval. This is
> > >> > > open as well as requires participant a higher degree of
> > >> > > commitment to collaborate
> > and
> > >> > > will be more structured.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Thanks
> > >> > > Animesh
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Chip Childers
> > >> > > > <chipchilders@apache.org>
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > Steve,
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > (Speaking with my PMC hat on, but not as someone that
has
> > >> > > > > the
> > time
> > >> > > > > to help with this process)
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > I love the idea of moving forward with resolving some
of
> > >> > > > > the quality process / tooling / etc... challenges that
we
> > >> > > > > face as a project and community. I also love the idea
that
> > >> > > > > companies
> > getting
> > >> > > > > commercial value from this project are talking (as
> > >> > > > > companies) about how to best support the project through
> > >> > > > > either directing their employees to work on this problem,
> > >> > > > > allowing those
> > interested
> > >> > > > > the time to do so, and / or offering (as Citrix did)
> > >> > > > > required hardware/software resources to make improvements
> > >> > > > > for the common good.  Importantly, I like that the
> > >> > > > > companies involved are mutually agreeing that this
is for the
> common good.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > That said, I have a concern about the outline below,
> > specifically
> > >> > > > > in how the definition of approach and eventual execution
> > >> > > > > are
> > >> handled.
> > >> > > > > The proposal of taking this off-list until there is
a
> > >> > > > > "proposal
> > to
> > >> > > ratify"
> > >> > > > > is what I'd like to see changed. I would fully expect
that
> > >> > > > > a fleshed out proposal hitting the list would be met
with
> > >> > > > > more discussion than you would like (and perhaps even
met
> > >> > > > > with
> > >> frustration).
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > What has worked well for us in the past, where there
is a
> > >> > > > > need
> > to
> > >> > > > > have those interested in "doing work" to be able to
focus
> > >> > > > > on
> > that
> > >> > > > > work, has been to start with a call for interested
parties
> > >> > > > > (as
> > you
> > >> > > > > did). Then, using a combination of threads on this
list and
> > "live"
> > >> > > > > meetings, make progress on defining the requirements
and
> > approach
> > >> > incrementally.
> > >> > > > > Execution of any work should similarly be open and
shared
> > >> > > > > on
> > this
> > >> list.
> > >> > > > > Throughout that process, allowing comments and openings
for
> > >> > > > > participants are critical.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > One of the things we learned about using "live" meetings
to
> > speed
> > >> > > > > up the consensus process in the past is to make sure
that
> > >> > > > > while they are fantastic at allowing the participants
to
> > >> > > > > understand
> > each
> > >> > > > > other, it's critical to remember that (1) there are
no
> > >> > > > > project decisions made outside of the mailing lists
and (2)
> > >> > > > > that it's important to have minutes or notes from those
> > >> > > > > live meetings
> > shared
> > >> > > > > with the community as
> > >> > > a
> > >> > > > whole.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Now a very real concern that some of us have is getting
> > >> > > > > bogged down in arguments based on opinion, especially
the "drive
> by"
> > >> > > > > opinions. This issue (plus challenges with people violently
> > >> > > > > agreeing with each other, yet talking past each other),
is
> > >> > > > > what
> > I
> > >> > > > > believe has held up meaningful progress. To deal with
this,
> > >> > > > > I suggest we all remember that projects at the ASF
are
> > >> > > > > about supporting those that "DO", while giving opportunity
> > >> > > > > for participation and comment from those that might
not
> > >> > > > > currently be "DOING". But those that are doing the
work,
> > >> > > > > and collaborating to reach a shared goal, shouldn't
let a
> > >> > > > > lack of 100% consensus on
> > >> every
> > >> > aspect hold back progress.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > As someone who will not be "doing" anything for this
> > >> > > > > effort, but has an interest in maintaining this community's
> > >> > > > > health and
> > seeing
> > >> > > > > it continue to succeed, I hope my suggestions and comments
> > >> > > > > are
> > >> helpful.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > -chip
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 07:12:27PM +0000, Steve Wilson
wrote:
> > >> > > > >> Hi Everyone,
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> It was great to get to see a number of you at the
recent
> > >> > > > >> CCC in
> > >> > > Budapest.
> > >> > > > While I was there, I got to meet face to face with
> > >> > > > individuals working
> > >> > > for several
> > >> > > > companies that have a real stake in the commercial success
of
> > >> > > > the
> > >> > > CloudStack
> > >> > > > project.
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> After joining Citrix (and becoming involved in
CloudStack)
> > about
> > >> > > > >> a
> > >> > > year ago,
> > >> > > > I’ve come to believe that we need to do more to mature
our
> > >> > > > quality
> > >> > > practices
> > >> > > > around this codebase.  We all like to say #cloudstackworks
> > >> > > > (and
> > it’s
> > >> > > true), but
> > >> > > > this is a massive codebase that’s used in the most demanding
> > >> > > situations.  We
> > >> > > > have large telecommunications companies and enterprises
who
> > >> > > > are betting
> > >> > > their
> > >> > > > businesses on this software.  It has to be great!
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> There has been quite a bit of discussion on the
mailing
> > >> > > > >> list in
> > >> > > recent months
> > >> > > > about how we improve in this area.  There is plenty of
> > >> > > > passion,
> > but
> > >> > > > we
> > >> > > haven’t
> > >> > > > made enough concrete progress as a community.  In my
> > >> > > > discussions with key contributors as CCC, there was general
> > >> > > > agreement that the DEV list isn’t
> > >> > > a good
> > >> > > > forum for hashing out these kinds of things.  Email is too
> > >> > > > low-bandwidth
> > >> > > and too
> > >> > > > impersonal.
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> At CCC, I discussed with several people the idea
that we
> > >> > > > >> commission a
> > >> > > small
> > >> > > > sub team to go hash out a proposal for how we handle the
> > >> > > > following topics within the ACS community (which can then
be
> > >> > > > brought back to the larger community for ratification):
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >>   *   Continuous integration and test automation
> > >> > > > >>   *   Gating of commits
> > >> > > > >>   *   Overall commit workflow
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> We are looking for volunteers to commit to being
part of
> > >> > > > >> this
> > >> team.
> > >> > > This
> > >> > > > would imply a serious commitment.  We don’t want hangers
on
> > >> > > > or
> > >> observers.
> > >> > > > This will entail real work and late night meetings.  We’re
> > >> > > > looking for
> > >> > > people who
> > >> > > > are serious contributors to the codebase.
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> From Citrix, David Nalley and Animesh Chaturvedi
have
> > >> > > > >> booth
> > told
> > >> > > > >> me
> > >> > > they’re
> > >> > > > willing to commit to this project.  They’ve both managed
ACS
> > >> > > > releases
> > >> > > and have
> > >> > > > a really good view into the current process — and I know
both
> > >> > > > are
> > >> > > passionate
> > >> > > > about improving our process.  From my CCC discussions, I
> > >> > > > believe there
> > >> > > are
> > >> > > > individuals from Schuberg Philis, Shape Blue and Cloud Ops
> > >> > > > who are
> > >> > > willing to
> > >> > > > commit to this process.
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> If you are willing to be part of this team to drive
> > >> > > > >> forward our
> > >> > > community,
> > >> > > > please reply here.
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> Thanks,
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> -Steve
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> Steve Wilson
> > >> > > > >> VP & Product Unit Manager
> > >> > > > >> Cloud Software
> > >> > > > >> Citrix
> > >> > > > >> @virtualsteve
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > --
> > >> > > > Daan
> > >> > >
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Daan
> >
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