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From Damoder Reddy <Damoder.Re...@citrix.com>
Subject RE: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS
Date Tue, 25 Feb 2014 05:47:33 GMT
Hi Alex,

 Apart from agent scripts, there are couple of scripts those gets executed for during the
management server startup like injecting ssh keys into systemvm.iso etc.. Still I am in search
of any other scripts will get called in management server, though I could not find any as
of now.

Thanks & Regards
Damodar/

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Huang [mailto:Alex.Huang@citrix.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 10:10 AM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS

Abhi,

I think you misunderstood.  I meant that it should not depend on things later releases like
.net framework.  See the following wiki page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework#Versions

I would imagine .net framework 3 or 3.5 would be ideal.  If you use .net framework 4, then
libraries need to be installed and they sometimes have conflicts with existing apps.  


As for python or shell scripts, I don't see why we should need any python scripts on management
server, regardless if it's windows or Linux.  Python scripts can be included and executed
by agents on Linux systems but I don't see a place for them on the management server.  For
windows, specifically, asking a windows admin to install python is not unlike asking them
to install Cygwin.

--Alex

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Abhinandan Prateek [mailto:Abhinandan.Prateek@citrix.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 8:31 PM
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS
> 
> Yes, that is one of the objective to make MS not dependant on cygwin 
> or any other windows tools and utilities. The bash scripts are all converted to Python.
> 
> -abhi
> 
> 
> On 25/02/14 12:06 am, "Alex Huang" <Alex.Huang@citrix.com> wrote:
> 
> >One additional requirement I have would be don't use any windows 
> >components that don't come with the default systems targeted.  I know 
> >it sounds great to use the latest and greatest but actually the end 
> >users will have to install that and it may mess with their existing 
> >setup.  In this proposal, the purely windows parts are fairly basic 
> >parts of windows.  Don't bind it to libraries that require 
> >installation of additional libraries.
> >
> >--Alex
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Donal Lafferty [mailto:donal.lafferty@citrix.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 1:00 AM
> >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS
> >>
> >> I prefer the focus on support that comes with David's suggestion.
> >>Targeting
> >> the latest stable release for a new platform greatly reduces the 
> >>number of  permutations to test.
> >>
> >> Pursuing legacy systems limits the flexibility of ACS to evolve.  
> >>For instance,  we'll probably be on Java 7 in the next while, and 
> >>W2K3 doesn't appear on  the supported system list (see 
> >>https://www.java.com/en/download/help/sysreq.xml).  Likewise, older 
> >>versions of Internet Explorer can be quite different than what 
> >>Microsoft has  recently published.
> >>
> >> My guess is that the engineering effort to get ACS working on a 
> >> legacy system makes sense as a consultancy service offered 
> >> independent
> to ACS.
> >> That's the case of OS/2 support ;)
> >>
> >>
> >> DL
> >>
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Alex Hitchins [mailto:alex.hitchins@shapeblue.com]
> >> > Sent: 20 February 2014 14:29
> >> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> > Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS
> >> >
> >> > I agree totally, my point was that while there is nothing 
> >> > technically stopping us going for w2k3 there is little reason to do so.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards
> >> >
> >> > Alex Hitchins
> >> >
> >> > D: +44 1892 523 587 | S: +44 2036 030 540 | M: +44 7788 423 969
> >> >
> >> > alex.hitchins@shapeblue.com
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: David Nalley [mailto:david@gnsa.us]
> >> > Sent: 20 February 2014 13:24
> >> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> > Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS
> >> >
> >> > There's a difference in incidentally working and validated to work on.
> >> > I'd limit focus to making sure it works on 2k12r2.
> >> >
> >> > --David
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 6:37 AM, Alex Hitchins 
> >> > <alex.hitchins@shapeblue.com> wrote:
> >> > > I can't think of anything that wouldn't be possible on W2k3 - 
> >> > > that said It's
> >> > old and I can't see people having a need for it.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Regards
> >> > >
> >> > > Alex Hitchins
> >> > >
> >> > > D: +44 1892 523 587 | S: +44 2036 030 540 | M: +44 7788 423 969
> >> > >
> >> > > alex.hitchins@shapeblue.com
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Paul Angus [mailto:paul.angus@shapeblue.com]
> >> > > Sent: 20 February 2014 11:17
> >> > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> > > Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS
> >> > >
> >> > > Isn't the hyper-v support dependant on using 2012r2 ?
> >> > >
> >> > > So I don't know if I'd bother with going back as far as 2003
> >> > >
> >> > > Regards,
> >> > >
> >> > > Paul Angus
> >> > > Cloud Architect
> >> > > S: +44 20 3603 0540 | M: +447711418784 | T: @CloudyAngus 
> >> > > paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Rajesh Battala [mailto:rajesh.battala@citrix.com]
> >> > > Sent: 20 February 2014 11:13
> >> > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> > > Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS
> >> > >
> >> > > AFAIK, it would be windows server 2k3, 2k8 2012, 2012R2.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks
> >> > > Rajesh Battala
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Damoder Reddy [mailto:Damoder.Reddy@citrix.com]
> >> > > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 4:32 PM
> >> > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> > > Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS
> >> > >
> >> > > One question I have is, Which version of windows we need to target?
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks & Regards
> >> > > Damodar/
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Damoder Reddy [mailto:Damoder.Reddy@citrix.com]
> >> > > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 2:04 PM
> >> > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> > > Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS
> >> > >
> >> > > I have tried to put all together in FS at
> >> >
> >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Cloudstack+Win
> >> > dowsfication as Feedback section and added my comments there.
> >> > >
> >> > > Please verify once and let me know if anything is to be added there.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks & Regards
> >> > > Damodar/
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Damoder Reddy [mailto:Damoder.Reddy@citrix.com]
> >> > > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 12:32 PM
> >> > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> > > Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS
> >> > >
> >> > > Thank you all for your inputs.
> >> > >
> >> > >  I will aggregate all these things into FS  as appendix and 
> >> > > will put comments
> >> > there instead of replying here one by one. Once I am done with 
> >> > update in FS I will notify so that we can verify whether we are 
> >> > covering all
> >>or not.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks & Regards
> >> > > Damodar/
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: abhisek basu [mailto:abhisekbasu@msn.com]
> >> > > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 9:16 AM
> >> > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> > > Cc: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> > > Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS
> >> > >
> >> > > Getting a Windows version will expand ACS reach to a large no 
> >> > > of audience and make it more OS independent from its core. As 
> >> > > far as the tools are concern, I am sure it's achievable, we 
> >> > > have the most enthusiastic community contributors behind :)
> >> > >
> >> > > Sent from my iPhone
> >> > >
> >> > >> On 16 Feb 2014, at 1:08 am, "Alex Hitchins"
> >> > <alex.hitchins@shapeblue.com> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I would guess that Windows has tools for managing a large 
> >> > >> number of
> >> > Hyper-V hosts? I wonder what ACS would add to that.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I still think it would be a very achievable goal and worth doing.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Regards
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Alex Hitchins
> >> > >>
> >> > >> D: +44 1892 523 587 | S: +44 2036 030 540 | M: +44 7788 423 
> >> > >> 969
> >> > >>
> >> > >> alex.hitchins@shapeblue.com
> >> > >>
> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >> From: Paul Angus [mailto:paul.angus@shapeblue.com]
> >> > >> Sent: 15 February 2014 18:49
> >> > >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> > >> Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS
> >> > >>
> >> > >> My view is that anyone who wants to use Hyper-V is very 
> >> > >> unlikely to want
> >> > to have Linux based management servers lurking around, because I 
> >> > think they'll be pretty wedded to Microsoft to want Hyper-V as 
> >> > the hypervisor. So being able to deploy windows based management 
> >> > servers seems essential to the use of Hyper-V (for better or worse).
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I think also there are probably a lot of Windows based 
> >> > >> Enterprises who
> >> > also wouldn't like to a couple of stray Linux boxes running the show.
> >> > I guess Microsoft think there is a market for Windows based 
> >> > private clouds or they wouldn't have created the Behemoth that is 
> >> > the Azure
> >>Pack.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> ...and Apache Tomcat have managed to create a windows port - 
> >> > >> so how hard can it be? [tic]
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Regards
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Paul Angus
> >> > >> Cloud Architect
> >> > >> S: +44 20 3603 0540 | M: +447711418784 | T: CloudyAngus 
> >> > >> paul.angus@shapeblue.com
> >> > >>
> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >> From: David Nalley [mailto:david@gnsa.us]
> >> > >> Sent: 15 February 2014 18:29
> >> > >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> > >> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Windowsfication Of ACS
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Alex Huang 
> >> > >>> <Alex.Huang@citrix.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >>> I see this as that CS management server should run anywhere

> >> > >>> java
> >> runs.
> >> > However, I see quite a few holes in this proposal.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> - Management server should never have mounted the NFS
> secondary
> >> > storage.  We need to fix that.  Please have a talk with Kelven 
> >> > about this.  I don't see us adding Samba to any machine that runs 
> >> > the management server.  If this is just about seeding the system 
> >> > template, it can be done as part of installation rather than 
> >> > management
> server.
> >> > >>> - If I truly think about Windowsification, I think windows

> >> > >>> installer,
> >> > windows service, opening ports in windows firewall.  I don't see 
> >> > any of that here.  Or else it's useless for windows people.
> >> > >>>        - For java, most people write a windows service that

> >> > >>> launches the
> >> > jvm and keeps track of the jvm.
> >> > >>> - There's a number of things that CloudStack management 
> >> > >>> server does
> >> > today at startup that should not be there and those are what
> >>complicates
> >> the
> >> > windowfication.   These things should be moved out of the
> management
> >> > server and into installation.  What should be inside the 
> >> > management server startup procedure should be checks, rather than generations.
> >> > It should check for ssh key exists and the database version 
> >> > matches etc but it should not do the following.
> >> > >>>        - Upgrade of the database
> >> > >>>        - ssh key generation
> >> > >>>        - iso generation.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> --Alex
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> A couple of more to add to the list.
> >> > >> There isn't really a good binary software dependency 
> >> > >> resolution framework for Windows (at least not that I am aware

> >> > >> of) and you potentially need lots of different things - mysql

> >> > >> libraries, python, ipmitool, or another shell to execute shell
scripts.
> >> > >> Look at the list of the dependencies we install in the RPMs 
> >> > >> for an idea of things that are missing. Is the plan to bundle

> >> > >> those in the binaries? (If so, we need to be having a serious

> >> > >> discussion around a shift of a number system requirements to 
> >> > >> dependencies which may or may not be
> >> > >> acceptable.) With what appears to be some serious refactoring

> >> > >> in how the
> >> > management server works that Alex outlines and I doubt this is a 
> >> > short term goal. (e.g. 4.4 timeframe). If you are going to take 
> >> > on all of the refactoring work, please start by building tests 
> >> > that prove that it all works today and then verify the same 
> >> > behavior in the
> >>refactored work.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> --David
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