cloudstack-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Erik Weber <terbol...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze
Date Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:57:32 GMT
Of course, as a customer there might be specific feature that I'd really
want to get released as planned.
And well, I'm not saying it's not possible to be flexible with a date or
two in specific cases.
I'm a bit more worried that postponing becomes the norm, e.g. that all
future versions always get delayed,
which in turn delays the next version. Before you know it you're down to
three releases per year.

As a customer, and service provider, having a bug free and stable
environment is more important
than having the hottest new features out there. Of course they're always
welcome, but if I have to choose
between 'über feature X but 2 months delayed' and 'fixes that critical bug
you have on time' I'll take the latter
one any day.

And before anyway says it, we could of course roll our own versions, and
just use the latest RC, but that'd
be problematic for support contracts.

Erik


On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com> wrote:

> Personally I'm not at much risk of missing a deadline if it's still two
> weeks out. I was thinking more along the lines that others - who have been
> hard at work on 4.3 RC testing, as well - might miss their deadlines.
>
> I can see your point of view, Erik. In my case, it's the opposite:
> customers would rather have feature X from SolidFire sooner rather than
> wait another 1/3 of a year.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:40 AM, Erik Weber <terbolous@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > As a customer of several companies involved with cloudstack i must say
> that
> > having a reliable time schedule is more important than having feature X.
> > We've been waiting for 4.3 since we discovered a bug that got fixed in
> 4.3
> > but not in 4.2 branch and rendered us unable to use that version.
> >
> > If 4.3 had held it's schedule we would've been rolling almost one month
> > ago, instead we are still wasting time waiting for a supported version.
> >
> > If 4.4 now were to be postponed and an important bug appears in 4.3 with
> a
> > fix in 4.4 it would have me thinking about moving to other solutions if i
> > know that it'll be 5-6 months before release.
> >
> > Erik
> >  27. feb. 2014 20:57 skrev "Mike Tutkowski" <
> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com>
> > følgende:
> >
> > > I'm not sure I would say that not moving the feature-freeze date is a
> > > penalty, but it does have consequences for customers...as does the fact
> > > that we miss our release deadlines consistently.
> > >
> > > If you are working on a feature that hasn't been advertised to your
> > > customers via a roadmap or some other mechanism, then it doesn't really
> > > matter, I suppose, if you release that feature today or, say, four
> months
> > > from now when the next release comes out.
> > >
> > > However, many of us work under the direction of a roadmap that has been
> > > made visible to our customers. In such an environment, these customers
> do
> > > expect when you tell them feature X will be out in, say, 4.3 that it
> > does,
> > > in fact, come out in 4.3 and not four months later in 4.4.
> > >
> > > I just wanted to point this out because I've seen in several e-mails
> over
> > > the past year the following idea: If a feature doesn't make it into
> this
> > > release, no big deal - it can be put in the next release.
> > >
> > > While technically true, this does not take into consideration customer
> > > expectations around feature-release dates.
> > >
> > > Personally, I'd rather push a feature-freeze date back by a couple
> weeks
> > > than make customers (of mine or anyone else's) wait another 1/3 of a
> year
> > > or more for the feature(s) in question.
> > >
> > > At some point, however, we need to conduct a retrospective to uncover
> why
> > > we are not hitting our deadlines. Perhaps the deadlines are too tight?
> > > Perhaps there is a process issue missing (or in place) that prevents us
> > > from doing so? etc.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:21 PM, John Kinsella <jlk@stratosec.co>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I don't see not moving the freeze date as a penalty.  If a feature
> > > doesn't
> > > > make the current deadline, it moves to the next release, which is
> > still a
> > > > few months away. For significant issues, it's not uncommon for us to
> > > allow
> > > > them in late.
> > > >
> > > > What we have a stronger need for than shifting a date, by several
> > orders
> > > > of magnitude, is understanding why the RC process took so long and
> what
> > > we
> > > > can do in the future to make that not so painful.
> > > >
> > > > For the record I'm +0 on moving the feature freeze date.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > On Feb 26, 2014, at 7:10 PM, Ram Ganesh <Ram.Ganesh@citrix.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I share it too. Many developers in the community went out of their
> > way
> > > > to get a cleaner RC and thereby impacting their feature development
> > > > efforts. We shouldn't be penalizing them with this 2 week's feature
> > > freeze
> > > > schedule
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > RamG
> > > > >
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: Animesh Chaturvedi [mailto:animesh.chaturvedi@citrix.com]
> > > > >> Sent: 27 February 2014 03:00
> > > > >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > >> Subject: RE: 4.4 Feature Freeze
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Mike I share your opinion most of us have been pretty much on
4.3
> > > until
> > > > >> now, and pushing out the release seems reasonable. As I called
out
> > in
> > > > earlier
> > > > >> mail the feature proposal date was not called out for 4.4 and
as
> > such
> > > > giving
> > > > >> little extra room seems reasonable.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Animesh
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
> > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 7:29 AM
> > > > >>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > >>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I think we're having this discussion after every release
because
> > > we're
> > > > >>> beginning to realize that a four-month release cycle has
not been
> > > very
> > > > >>> realistic for us yet.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> The main issue I encounter is our month-long RC cycle where
I
> > spend a
> > > > >>> bunch of time validating the RC and (during that timeframe)
less
> > time
> > > > >>> developing for the next release as I had initially planned.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Perhaps instead of extending the cycle we could consider
ways to
> > > > >>> actually meet the schedule on a consistent basis. That would
be
> > fine,
> > > > as
> > > > >> well.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:04 AM, Hugo Trippaers <
> hugo@trippaers.nl
> > >
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> -1 on postponing the feature freeze. We are having this
> discussion
> > > > >>>> after every release, however we agreed to do a 4 month
cycle so
> > > > >>>> let's stick
> > > > >>> to it.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> If there are important features that are currently being
> developed
> > > > >>>> but might not make this cut-off date we should discuss
that
> > > > >>>> separately, but as a point of principle lets stick to
the
> release
> > > > schedule as
> > > > >> proposed.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Cheers,
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Hugo
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On 26 feb. 2014, at 15:23, Tracy Phillips
> > > > >>>> <tracy.phillips@weberize.com>
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> +1 to Daan.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Tracy Phillips
> > > > >>>>> Weberize, Inc.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Daan Hoogland
> > > > >>>>> <daan.hoogland@gmail.com
> > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> -1 for postponing the feature freeze. It will
amount to more
> > > > >>>>>> features in the release. I'd rather shorten the
cycle and do
> > more
> > > > >>>>>> releases then to pack more bugs in a single go.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Guo Star <
> ghxandsky@gmail.com>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>> +1
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> 2014-02-26 20:01 GMT+08:00 Abhinandan Prateek
<
> > > > >>>>>> Abhinandan.Prateek@citrix.com
> > > > >>>>>>>> :
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> +1 for 4.4 feature freeze on 3/28.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> On 26/02/14 10:01 am, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi"
> > > > >>>>>>>> <sateesh.chodapuneedi@citrix.com>
wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> ]
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: 26 February 2014 04:46
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I think this is a good idea,
Animesh (to push out feature
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> freeze to 3/28).
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> +1 to move 4.4 feature freeze date
to 3/28.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Regards,
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Sateesh
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I also agree we should discuss
4+ month development cycles
> > > > >> again.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:43
PM, Animesh Chaturvedi <
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> animesh.chaturvedi@citrix.com>
wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I will start a separate discussion
on 4 month cycle or
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> longer, but wanted to call
out one more important date.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> We have a last day for feature
proposal date which is
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> typically a month before
feature freeze date. If
> following
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 4.3 schedule + 4
> > > > >>>>>> month
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> it would have been 2/14 and
we are already past that.
> Since
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> it was
> > > > >>>>>> not
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> announced for
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 4.4 release yet my suggestion
would be to keep feature
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> proposal
> > > > >>>>>> open
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> for another week and push
all  the dates out by 2 weeks
> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> give
> > > > >>>>>> folks
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to finish up
their features for new proposals
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> that are
> > > > >>>>>> yet
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to come out.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> To be clear that would mean
pushing out feature freeze to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3/28 from
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3/14 and all the other dates
likewise.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Animesh
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Animesh Chaturvedi
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:animesh.chaturvedi@citrix.com]
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February
25, 2014 1:05 PM
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: 4.4 Feature
Freeze
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> With the experience of
4.2 and 4.3 I think we should
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> discuss if
> > > > >>>>>> we
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> can realistically achieve
4 month cycle our RCs take 2
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> months. I
> > > > >>>>>> was
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> going to open up the
discussion after 4.3 is shipped
> > though.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Trippie [mailto:trippie@gmail.com]
On Behalf Of
> > Hugo
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Trippaers
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February
25, 2014 8:50 AM
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <dev@cloudstack.apache.org>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: 4.4
Feature Freeze
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> If we stick to our
4 month release schedule the feature
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> freeze
> > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> four months after
the feature freeze of 4.3. The
> feature
> > > > >>>>>> freeze of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.3 was
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 8 Nov
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2013.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> So the proposed release
schedule for 4.4 would look
> like
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> this (dates slightly
modified to take efficiency and
> RM's
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> personal
> > > > >>>>>> life
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> into
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> account ;-) ):
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Feature Freeze: 
                   March 14, 2014
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Testing/Bug Fixes:
                 March 15, 2014 till
> > > April
> > > > >>>>>> 18,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> 2014
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (direct access for
committers)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stability Fixes only:
                      April 19,
> > 2014
> > > > till
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> release (cherry picks
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> by RM only)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> First RC:       
                           May 9, 2014
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Optimistic Release
Date:    May 19, 2014
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hugo
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 feb. 2014,
at 16:35, Sudha Ponnaganti
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <sudha.ponnaganti@citrix.com>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also looking
for feature freeze dates for 4.4.
> Can
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RM
> > > > >>>>>> post
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> those?
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Sudha
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original
Message-----
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Alex Hitchins
[mailto:
> alex.hitchins@shapeblue.com
> > ]
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday,
February 25, 2014 7:00 AM
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: 4.4
Feature Freeze
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know the 4.3
isn't quite out the door yet, but is
> > there
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a timetable
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere stating
when the feature freeze for 4.4 will
> > be?
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like
to submit a feature and want to ensure
> that
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's prepared
in
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> time.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Hitchins
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VP Software Engineering
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> D: +44 1892 523
587 | S: +44 20 3603
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0540<tel:+442036030540>
> > > > >>>>>> |
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> M:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> +44<tel:+447968161581>
7788 423 969
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ShapeBlue Ltd,
53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden,
> London,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WC2N
> > > > >>>>>> 4HS
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need Enterprise
Grade Support for Apache CloudStack?
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our CloudStack
Infrastructure
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Support<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure-support/>
offers the best 24/7 SLA for
> > > > >>>>>> CloudStack
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Environments.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache CloudStack
Bootcamp training courses
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> **NEW!** CloudStack
4.2.1
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> training<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> training/>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 18th-19th February
2014, Brazil.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Classroom<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17th-23rd March
2014, Region A. Instructor led, On-
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> line<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 24th-28th March
2014, Region B. Instructor led, On-
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> line<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 16th-20th June
2014, Region A. Instructor led, On-
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> line<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 23rd-27th June
2014, Region B. Instructor led, On-
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> line<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This email and
any attachments to it may be
> confidential
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>> are
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> solely for the use
of the individual to whom it is
> > > addressed.
> > > > >>>>>> Any
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> views or opinions
expressed are solely those of the
> > author
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>> do
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> not necessarily represent
those of Shape Blue Ltd or
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> related companies.
If you are not the intended
> recipient
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> of this email, you
must neither take any action based
> > upon
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> its contents, nor
> > > > >>>>>> copy
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> or show it to anyone.
Please contact the sender if you
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> believe
> > > > >>>>>> you
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> have received this
email in error. Shape Blue Ltd is a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> company incorporated
in England & Wales. ShapeBlue
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Services India LLP
> > > > >>>>>> is a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> company incorporated
in India and is operated under
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> license
> > > > >>>>>> from
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Shape Blue Ltd. Shape
Blue Brasil Consultoria Ltda is a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> company incorporated
in Brasil and is operated under
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> license from Shape
Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue is
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> registered trademark.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Senior CloudStack Developer,
SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Advancing the way the world uses
the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> *(tm)*
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> --
> > > > >>>>>> Daan
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> --
> > > > >>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > >>> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > >>> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > >>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > >>> Advancing the way the world uses the
> > > > >>> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> > > > >>> *(tm)*
> > > >
> > > > Stratosec - Compliance as a Service
> > > > o: 415.315.9385
> > > > @johnlkinsella
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > Advancing the way the world uses the
> > > cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> > > *(tm)*
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *Mike Tutkowski*
> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> o: 303.746.7302
> Advancing the way the world uses the
> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> *(tm)*
>

Mime
  • Unnamed multipart/alternative (inline, None, 0 bytes)
View raw message