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From Mike Tutkowski <mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com>
Subject Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze
Date Fri, 28 Feb 2014 20:12:48 GMT
I agree that postponing should not be the norm.

I think we need to figure out from a process standpoint what we might do to
limit pushing dates back.

One thing that I've had experience with in the storage industry (at HP and
now SolidFire) is the idea of a risk-adjusted release window.

In the "best" of cases, you should expect the software to be released on X.

In the "worst" of cases, you should expect the software to be released on Y.

One issue with adapting that idea for CloudStack is that CloudStack
releases are quite a bit more frequent than what we had at HP and SolidFire.

Another issue I see is with defining what a release candidate really means.

At HP and SolidFire, when we built a release candidate, that RC had a much
higher probability of not being re-spun. I think this had to do with the
amount of formal testing that went into each release. By the time we were
ready to build a release candidate, it had been weeks before the last code
change went in and there had been tons of testing performed (a lot of it
automated) during that interval.

I'm not sure, though, with four-month release cycles if that's doable for
CloudStack.


On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Erik Weber <terbolous@gmail.com> wrote:

> Of course, as a customer there might be specific feature that I'd really
> want to get released as planned.
> And well, I'm not saying it's not possible to be flexible with a date or
> two in specific cases.
> I'm a bit more worried that postponing becomes the norm, e.g. that all
> future versions always get delayed,
> which in turn delays the next version. Before you know it you're down to
> three releases per year.
>
> As a customer, and service provider, having a bug free and stable
> environment is more important
> than having the hottest new features out there. Of course they're always
> welcome, but if I have to choose
> between 'über feature X but 2 months delayed' and 'fixes that critical bug
> you have on time' I'll take the latter
> one any day.
>
> And before anyway says it, we could of course roll our own versions, and
> just use the latest RC, but that'd
> be problematic for support contracts.
>
> Erik
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com> wrote:
>
> > Personally I'm not at much risk of missing a deadline if it's still two
> > weeks out. I was thinking more along the lines that others - who have
> been
> > hard at work on 4.3 RC testing, as well - might miss their deadlines.
> >
> > I can see your point of view, Erik. In my case, it's the opposite:
> > customers would rather have feature X from SolidFire sooner rather than
> > wait another 1/3 of a year.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:40 AM, Erik Weber <terbolous@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > As a customer of several companies involved with cloudstack i must say
> > that
> > > having a reliable time schedule is more important than having feature
> X.
> > > We've been waiting for 4.3 since we discovered a bug that got fixed in
> > 4.3
> > > but not in 4.2 branch and rendered us unable to use that version.
> > >
> > > If 4.3 had held it's schedule we would've been rolling almost one month
> > > ago, instead we are still wasting time waiting for a supported version.
> > >
> > > If 4.4 now were to be postponed and an important bug appears in 4.3
> with
> > a
> > > fix in 4.4 it would have me thinking about moving to other solutions
> if i
> > > know that it'll be 5-6 months before release.
> > >
> > > Erik
> > >  27. feb. 2014 20:57 skrev "Mike Tutkowski" <
> > mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com>
> > > følgende:
> > >
> > > > I'm not sure I would say that not moving the feature-freeze date is a
> > > > penalty, but it does have consequences for customers...as does the
> fact
> > > > that we miss our release deadlines consistently.
> > > >
> > > > If you are working on a feature that hasn't been advertised to your
> > > > customers via a roadmap or some other mechanism, then it doesn't
> really
> > > > matter, I suppose, if you release that feature today or, say, four
> > months
> > > > from now when the next release comes out.
> > > >
> > > > However, many of us work under the direction of a roadmap that has
> been
> > > > made visible to our customers. In such an environment, these
> customers
> > do
> > > > expect when you tell them feature X will be out in, say, 4.3 that it
> > > does,
> > > > in fact, come out in 4.3 and not four months later in 4.4.
> > > >
> > > > I just wanted to point this out because I've seen in several e-mails
> > over
> > > > the past year the following idea: If a feature doesn't make it into
> > this
> > > > release, no big deal - it can be put in the next release.
> > > >
> > > > While technically true, this does not take into consideration
> customer
> > > > expectations around feature-release dates.
> > > >
> > > > Personally, I'd rather push a feature-freeze date back by a couple
> > weeks
> > > > than make customers (of mine or anyone else's) wait another 1/3 of a
> > year
> > > > or more for the feature(s) in question.
> > > >
> > > > At some point, however, we need to conduct a retrospective to uncover
> > why
> > > > we are not hitting our deadlines. Perhaps the deadlines are too
> tight?
> > > > Perhaps there is a process issue missing (or in place) that prevents
> us
> > > > from doing so? etc.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:21 PM, John Kinsella <jlk@stratosec.co>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I don't see not moving the freeze date as a penalty.  If a feature
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > make the current deadline, it moves to the next release, which is
> > > still a
> > > > > few months away. For significant issues, it's not uncommon for us
> to
> > > > allow
> > > > > them in late.
> > > > >
> > > > > What we have a stronger need for than shifting a date, by several
> > > orders
> > > > > of magnitude, is understanding why the RC process took so long and
> > what
> > > > we
> > > > > can do in the future to make that not so painful.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the record I'm +0 on moving the feature freeze date.
> > > > >
> > > > > John
> > > > >
> > > > > On Feb 26, 2014, at 7:10 PM, Ram Ganesh <Ram.Ganesh@citrix.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I share it too. Many developers in the community went out of
> their
> > > way
> > > > > to get a cleaner RC and thereby impacting their feature development
> > > > > efforts. We shouldn't be penalizing them with this 2 week's feature
> > > > freeze
> > > > > schedule
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > RamG
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> From: Animesh Chaturvedi [mailto:animesh.chaturvedi@citrix.com]
> > > > > >> Sent: 27 February 2014 03:00
> > > > > >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > > >> Subject: RE: 4.4 Feature Freeze
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Mike I share your opinion most of us have been pretty much
on
> 4.3
> > > > until
> > > > > >> now, and pushing out the release seems reasonable. As I
called
> out
> > > in
> > > > > earlier
> > > > > >> mail the feature proposal date was not called out for 4.4
and as
> > > such
> > > > > giving
> > > > > >> little extra room seems reasonable.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Animesh
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >>> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
> > > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 7:29 AM
> > > > > >>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > > >>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I think we're having this discussion after every release
> because
> > > > we're
> > > > > >>> beginning to realize that a four-month release cycle
has not
> been
> > > > very
> > > > > >>> realistic for us yet.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> The main issue I encounter is our month-long RC cycle
where I
> > > spend a
> > > > > >>> bunch of time validating the RC and (during that timeframe)
> less
> > > time
> > > > > >>> developing for the next release as I had initially planned.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Perhaps instead of extending the cycle we could consider
ways
> to
> > > > > >>> actually meet the schedule on a consistent basis. That
would be
> > > fine,
> > > > > as
> > > > > >> well.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:04 AM, Hugo Trippaers <
> > hugo@trippaers.nl
> > > >
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> -1 on postponing the feature freeze. We are having
this
> > discussion
> > > > > >>>> after every release, however we agreed to do a 4
month cycle
> so
> > > > > >>>> let's stick
> > > > > >>> to it.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> If there are important features that are currently
being
> > developed
> > > > > >>>> but might not make this cut-off date we should discuss
that
> > > > > >>>> separately, but as a point of principle lets stick
to the
> > release
> > > > > schedule as
> > > > > >> proposed.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Cheers,
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Hugo
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> On 26 feb. 2014, at 15:23, Tracy Phillips
> > > > > >>>> <tracy.phillips@weberize.com>
> > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>> +1 to Daan.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Tracy Phillips
> > > > > >>>>> Weberize, Inc.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Daan Hoogland
> > > > > >>>>> <daan.hoogland@gmail.com
> > > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> -1 for postponing the feature freeze. It
will amount to more
> > > > > >>>>>> features in the release. I'd rather shorten
the cycle and do
> > > more
> > > > > >>>>>> releases then to pack more bugs in a single
go.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Guo Star
<
> > ghxandsky@gmail.com>
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>> +1
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> 2014-02-26 20:01 GMT+08:00 Abhinandan
Prateek <
> > > > > >>>>>> Abhinandan.Prateek@citrix.com
> > > > > >>>>>>>> :
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> +1 for 4.4 feature freeze on 3/28.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> On 26/02/14 10:01 am, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi"
> > > > > >>>>>>>> <sateesh.chodapuneedi@citrix.com>
wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:
> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > ]
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: 26 February 2014 04:46
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature
Freeze
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> I think this is a good idea,
Animesh (to push out
> feature
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> freeze to 3/28).
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> +1 to move 4.4 feature freeze
date to 3/28.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Regards,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Sateesh
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> I also agree we should discuss
4+ month development
> cycles
> > > > > >> again.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at
3:43 PM, Animesh Chaturvedi <
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> animesh.chaturvedi@citrix.com>
wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I will start a separate
discussion on 4 month cycle or
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> longer, but wanted to
call out one more important date.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> We have a last day for
feature proposal date which is
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> typically a month before
feature freeze date. If
> > following
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 4.3 schedule + 4
> > > > > >>>>>> month
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> it would have been 2/14
and we are already past that.
> > Since
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> it was
> > > > > >>>>>> not
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> announced for
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 4.4 release yet my suggestion
would be to keep feature
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> proposal
> > > > > >>>>>> open
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> for another week and
push all  the dates out by 2 weeks
> > to
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> give
> > > > > >>>>>> folks
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to finish
up their features for new
> proposals
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> that are
> > > > > >>>>>> yet
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to come out.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> To be clear that would
mean pushing out feature freeze
> to
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3/28 from
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3/14 and all the other
dates likewise.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Animesh
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Animesh Chaturvedi
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:animesh.chaturvedi@citrix.com]
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February
25, 2014 1:05 PM
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: 4.4
Feature Freeze
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> With the experience
of 4.2 and 4.3 I think we should
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> discuss if
> > > > > >>>>>> we
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> can realistically
achieve 4 month cycle our RCs take 2
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> months. I
> > > > > >>>>>> was
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> going to open up
the discussion after 4.3 is shipped
> > > though.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original
Message-----
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Trippie
[mailto:trippie@gmail.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > Hugo
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Trippaers
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday,
February 25, 2014 8:50 AM
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <dev@cloudstack.apache.org>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re:
4.4 Feature Freeze
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> If we stick
to our 4 month release schedule the
> feature
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> freeze
> > > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> four months
after the feature freeze of 4.3. The
> > feature
> > > > > >>>>>> freeze of
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.3 was
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 8 Nov
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2013.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> So the proposed
release schedule for 4.4 would look
> > like
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> this (dates
slightly modified to take efficiency and
> > RM's
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> personal
> > > > > >>>>>> life
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> into
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> account ;-) ):
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Feature Freeze:
                    March 14, 2014
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Testing/Bug
Fixes:                  March 15, 2014
> till
> > > > April
> > > > > >>>>>> 18,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 2014
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (direct access
for committers)
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stability Fixes
only:                       April 19,
> > > 2014
> > > > > till
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> release (cherry picks
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> by RM only)
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> First RC:  
                                May 9,
> 2014
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Optimistic Release
Date:    May 19, 2014
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hugo
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 feb. 2014,
at 16:35, Sudha Ponnaganti
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <sudha.ponnaganti@citrix.com>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also
looking for feature freeze dates for 4.4.
> > Can
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RM
> > > > > >>>>>> post
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> those?
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Sudha
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original
Message-----
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Alex
Hitchins [mailto:
> > alex.hitchins@shapeblue.com
> > > ]
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday,
February 25, 2014 7:00 AM
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject:
4.4 Feature Freeze
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know the
4.3 isn't quite out the door yet, but is
> > > there
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a timetable
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere stating
when the feature freeze for 4.4
> will
> > > be?
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would
like to submit a feature and want to ensure
> > that
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's prepared
in
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> time.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Hitchins
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VP Software
Engineering
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> D: +44 1892
523 587 | S: +44 20 3603
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> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Senior CloudStack Developer,
SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Advancing the way the world
uses the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> cloud<
> http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *(tm)*
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> --
> > > > > >>>>>> Daan
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> --
> > > > > >>> *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > > >>> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > > >>> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > > >>> o: 303.746.7302
> > > > > >>> Advancing the way the world uses the
> > > > > >>> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> > > > > >>> *(tm)*
> > > > >
> > > > > Stratosec - Compliance as a Service
> > > > > o: 415.315.9385
> > > > > @johnlkinsella
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > > > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > > > o: 303.746.7302
> > > > Advancing the way the world uses the
> > > > cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> > > > *(tm)*
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > o: 303.746.7302
> > Advancing the way the world uses the
> > cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> > *(tm)*
> >
>



-- 
*Mike Tutkowski*
*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
o: 303.746.7302
Advancing the way the world uses the
cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
*(tm)*

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