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From Marcus Sorensen <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Date Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:24:54 GMT
I presume Sebastien meant 4.1?

My main concerns revolve around those rough edges you mention. There
still seems to be a lot of confusion around the time-based release. We
got a lot of "wait, I can't include this" emails, I've seen people
commit directly to the 4.0 branch post-release rather than the manager
pulling in (perhaps they got buy-off from the release manager, I don't
know, but still it raised alarm bells for me to see the logs). There
was the whole javelin thing. Confusion around voting on the mailing
lists, etc.

I tend to agree with you Chip, that the incubation process itself may
not teach us anything further about these things, and they're just
things we need to iron out over time.

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Chip Childers
<> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 04:49:55PM +0100, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>> On Feb 13, 2013, at 4:43 PM, David Nalley <> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chip Childers
>> > <> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
>> >>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
>> >>> <> wrote:
>> >>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o about the
>> >>>> prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received positive
>> >>>> reactions from everyone that replied.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list, to
see if
>> >>>> anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down the path
>> >>>> trying to graduate?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> My general impression is that we have come a long way as a community
>> >>>> since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still rough
>> >>>> for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our problems
>> >>>> well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we are in
>> >>>> position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting value
>> >>>> the incubation process!  That's a good thing, because it means that
>> >>>> have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes, rules,
>> >>>> methods and preferences.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thoughts, comments, discussion?
>> Are you thinking to do this prior to 4.2 release ?
>> With my individual hat on, I think it might be best to put up a strong 4.2 release
and then vote for graduation. It would strengthen our case.
> So I think that we don't have to tie this to a specific release.  We've
> proven that we know how to do the mechanics of an ASF release now (with
> 2 under our belts), and anything we would do to get better at our
> community's release processes are purely for our community to be
> concerned with (assuming that we don't regress in any of our obligations
> as an Apache project).
> I also don't think that we really have a case to build.  As I indicated,
> the discussion on the private list was positive, and that included
> comments from mentors saying that they felt we were ready.
> IMO, the decision to ask to graduate should be based on what I believe
> the primary goal of incubation is for a podling (assuming the legal,
> procedural, policy stuff is sorted): Building an "Open and Diverse
> community" [1].  I'd add "the ability to self govern" to that goal.  I
> believe that we have achieved this, and, while we will need to
> perpetually work to grow and strengthen the community, we aren't getting
> value from being in the incubator anymore.
> Directly answering the question about "prior to 4.2": I don't think they
> are related.  If we are ready and it happens before 4.2, then great.  If
> not, then that should be because our process to graduate just took that
> long.
> Thoughts?
> -chip
> [1]

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