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From <kdam...@apache.org>
Subject RE: [DISCUSS] Email etiquette CC or not CC
Date Thu, 17 Jan 2013 01:58:33 GMT
Exactly,

We can do both practices on top of each other as long as everyone either
replies to dev list, or CC's dev list. Then a copy is available to all who
are not in the direct CC. 

Basically an opt-in system above and beyond our current practice. Not in
replacement of.

-kd


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sheng Yang [mailto:sheng@yasker.org]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:36 PM
>To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Email etiquette CC or not CC
>
>On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Kelcey Damage (BT)
><kelcey@backbonetechnology.com> wrote:
>> My position is the same as Joe, judicious email filters.
>>
>> TBH I would like a copy of everything to go to the list. If certain
>> people want to CC above and beyond that, I think it's ok. We really
>> need to keep the archival working.
>
>I believe archival would still working well. e.g. http://lkml.org/
>
>I know you're talking about offline discussion, but it's depends on people,
not
>on this mechanism. The people who want to do offline would still do
offline,
>even with current mailing list policy.
>
>I believe the people in community should have such sense to try best to
>prevent offline discussion.
>
>--Sheng
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -kd
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Sheng Yang [mailto:sheng@yasker.org]
>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:43 PM
>>>To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Email etiquette CC or not CC
>>>
>>>On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Joe Brockmeier <jzb@zonker.net> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013, at 05:43 PM, Edison Su wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>      I am struggling to read all the emails on dev list everyday, it's
>>>>>      just so many emails. Is it possible, that enable/allow/encourage
us
>>>>>      CC  to somebody if you think the topic he/she should take a
>>>>> look
>> at?
>>>>>      I think it will save both of us a lot of time.
>>>>
>>>> I've softened my position on this somewhat based on the conversation
>>>> today in IRC, but I still have misgivings about adopting a "CC
>>>> someone if they need to look at something."
>>>>
>>>> 1) Committers *should read the -dev list*. I understand that it's
>>>> high volume, and I don't expect people to read every email
>>>> thoroughly on the off chance that there's a mention of an issue that
>involves them.
>>>> There's a lot to be said for judicious use of email filters,
>>>> threading mail clients, and good mail hygiene of using descriptive
>>>> subjects, and so forth.
>>>>
>>>> I'm concerned that if we get in the practice of CC'ing people, we'll
>>>> start having (more of) an issue with people expecting to be CC'ed
>>>> and invited into a conversation. That means we lose their
>>>> participation in threads that may not be specifically their issue,
>>>> but they might have something worthwhile to contribute or have
>>>> concerns that should be voiced.
>>>
>>>Committers still should read the -dev lists. But it's easy to keep
>>>pace
>> when
>>>community is small, but it's unable to scale when community getting
>>>bigger and bigger.
>>>
>>>Using CC is the most scalable way to deal with community AFAIK, and it
>> works
>>>well in LKML, xen-devel, etc. And they are all working well. I don't
>>>think CloudStack would be an exception. From my experiences, CC is not
>>>something people would expect, it's something that ensure it caught
>>>the right
>> people's
>>>attention, and keep the right people in the thread.
>>>
>>>And there is the best thing about CC: Once you got CCed, you're in the
>> thread,
>>>unless you asked for removing CC explicitly. This enable you to keep
>>>track
>> the
>>>thread all the way down.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2) CC'ing people means you have to know who should take a look at
>>>> something. A new person to -dev who has a question or issue may not
>>>> know that they should CC someone.
>>>
>>>They don't need to. I am pretty sure the post to lkml or xen-devel
>>>without
>> CC
>>>anyone would still caught proper attention.
>>>
>>>But CC can keep you tracking the thread, which is best thing in the
>> community.
>>>>
>>>> If we're going to get into the practice of CC'ing people, I'd like
>>>> to see every committer have a page on the wiki that gives some
>>>> insight into what area(s) of CloudStack they can or should be CC'ed on.
>>>> (There's no reason non-committers cannot do the same, of course. But
>>>> at a bare minimum, we should do this with folks who have commit
>>>> privileges.)
>>>
>>>I think we can have that kind of wiki page, though the normal process
>>>I experienced is:
>>>
>>>1. One guy send a mail to the list, without CC anyone.
>>>2a. Someone jumped in, mostly the related committer.
>>>2b. Or some guy said, hi, you should talk with that guy, and CC him.
>>>3. Thread go on and on. There would be discussion or patch follow on
>>>at
>> other
>>>threads later, and the original poster would like to keep the same
>>>group of guys in the following threads as well - he knows who to CC now.
>>>
>>>> 3) Personally, I *don't* want to be CC'ed on messages sent to the list.
>>>> I already subscribe to the list and try to keep up with the mail.
>>>> Being CC'ed just means that I wind up seeing the message twice -
>>>> which exacerbates the problem of having too much email to filter
>>>> through in the first place.
>>>
>>>This some how relate with the mail client. You can copy all mail sent
>>>CC/TO
>> you
>>>in one folder, and if one mail sent to the mailing list copied you,
>>>set a
>> rule to
>>>mark the same mail in the mailing list folder as read, but kept the
>>>one in
>> your
>>>copy as unread. I think it's more likely a technically issue.
>>>
>>>--Sheng
>>>>
>>>> All that said - we need to find solutions that work for this
>>>> community, and I'm willing to give this a try if the consensus is
>>>> that it will work.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> jzb
>>>> --
>>>> Joe Brockmeier
>>>> jzb@zonker.net
>>>> Twitter: @jzb
>>>> http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
>>


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