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From Mike Kienenberger <>
Subject Re: cayenne library changes log level in struts2
Date Tue, 03 Dec 2013 17:24:28 GMT
Long overdue and exactly what is needed by all framework developers.

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Christian Grobmeier
<> wrote:
> On 3 Dec 2013, at 16:14, Mike Kienenberger wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Andrus Adamchik <>
>> wrote:
>>> Ideally I’d love to have zero dependency on a third-party logging
>>> framework. So that probably means using j.u.l and let the users bridge that
>>> as they want. Wonder if we’ll make everyone’s life miserable as a result?
>> No, we made that horrible mistake of going with j.u.l at MyFaces a
>> while back based in part on my lobbying for it.  It is a disaster to
>> end-users to have j.u.l as the default logging system.   There's no
>> way to bridge from j.u.l back to something else without huge
>> performance hits, so you lose any control over what logging system
>> your end-users can use.   It's very difficult to get it to read
>> configuration information from a file.   It has horrible two-line
>> logging output by default, which is again difficult to change.   At
>> least under weblogic app servers, you cannot identify which
>> applications are generating which log messages, and I'm pretty sure
>> that this is true in general for it.
>> Really, there's nothing good you can say about it other than it might
>> save you the 721K commons logging dependency.
> I agree here. Jul is painfully broken and doesn't work well with others.
> Even bridging from $x to Jul is painful.
> However I am currently preparing to put some effort into a new Logging JSR:
> So far I didn't haven the time yet, but I plan to push this around xmas.
> Imagine a logging proxy like slf4j or log4j2 in the JDK. Not implementation
> like
> JUL, just the interfaces. This is the goal. Unfortunately this will be a
> tough road
> and if it ever happens is not sure.
> ---
> @grobmeier
> GPG: 0xA5CC90DB

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