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From Andrus Adamchik <>
Subject Re: Parent/Child Insert ordering (was: Caching problem?)
Date Wed, 11 Oct 2006 00:57:09 GMT
Good question :-) Andriy, our math geek, is no longer with us. I  
don't recall the details (need to dig through Ashwood I guess), but  
simple parent/child relationships within the same table used to work  
afaik... We may think of smarter strategies to resolve the cycles  
(such as a chain of insert/update queries in the same transaction)...  
I don't think this will happen soon though.


On Oct 9, 2006, at 9:43 AM, Borut Bolčina wrote:
> Hi,
> in API docs for it  
> says:
> "...Presently it works for acyclic database schemas with possible  
> multi-reflexive tables. The class uses topological sorting from the  
> Ashwood library."
> What are multi-reflexive tables? I guess not every reflexive  
> relationship is cyclic. If db row "points" to the same db row then  
> it would be cyclic (for example - someone is his/her own manager),  
> otherwise just reflexive. Is this correct?
> -Borut
> On 21.5.2006 19:24, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>> Cayenne handles correct ordering of operations automatically,  
>> based on dependencies derived from relationships.The algorithm has  
>> a few limitations though. It can't handle cycles (when Entity A  
>> depends on Entity B, but also Entity B depends on Entity A). This  
>> probably also includes entities that have relationships to the  
>> same entity (I assume this is the case the original post was  
>> referring to).
>> There are few solutions:
>> 1. (a workaround, rather than a solution) Do commit in two steps.
>> 2. Define FK constraints in question as DEFERRABLE and INITIALLY  
>> DEFERRED (supported by Postgres 8.*)
>> 3. Set a custom on the  
>> DataNode.
>> Andrus
>> On May 20, 2006, at 3:00 AM, Marcin Skladaniec wrote:
>>> Hm. Strange. I do really complex commits, sometimes 7 or more  
>>> related records (I mean 7 levels of relationship, not seven  
>>> entities), related by many-to-many many-to-one relationships and  
>>> never get those problems. And it doesn't matter if the records  
>>> are new or old. Could you describe how you are creating objects  
>>> and how do you commit them ?
>>> Regards
>>> Marcin
>>> On 20/05/2006, at 4:31 PM, Tomi NA wrote:
>>>> On 5/20/06, Jeff de Vries <> wrote:
>>>>> I don't know if it is related or not, but I've also had  
>>>>> problems in the
>>>>> past when I try to create a new parent and several child  
>>>>> objects related
>>>>> to that parent all at once and then try to commit.  The problem  
>>>>> looks
>>>>> like Cayenne is INSERTing the child records into the database  
>>>>> first,
>>>>> before the parent record, and the database complains that the  
>>>>> children
>>>>> have an invalid foreign key (and, yes, I have the ON UPDATE and ON
>>>>> DELETE rules for the foreign key set to DO NOTHING and I still  
>>>>> get the
>>>>> error from PostgreSQL).  To get around it I just committed the  
>>>>> parent
>>>>> first, then committed all the children.
>>>> I had the same problem, IIRC: I was very surprised that cayenne
>>>> couldn't handle such a commit, although truth be told, I can't  
>>>> imagine
>>>> everything that's going on under the hood of the operation that  
>>>> would
>>>> make implementing this feature difficult.
>>>> I would certainly love to see this fixed (if at all possible) as I
>>>> wasn't to happy to have to commit in the middle of what had to  
>>>> be an
>>>> atomic transaction. It'd also make the framework a lot more  
>>>> flexible,
>>>> e.g. enabling the user to have long inter-commit sessions with  
>>>> complex
>>>> data updates, if the user so desires.
>>>> t.n.a.
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