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From Brice Dutheil <brice.duth...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Why does Cassandra recommends Oracle JVM instead of OpenJDK?
Date Mon, 13 Feb 2017 10:20:05 GMT
The Android battle is another thing that I wouldn't consider for OracleJDK
/ OpenJDK.
While I do like what Google did from a technical point of view, Google may
have overstepped fair use (or not – I don't know). Anyway Sun didn't like
what Google did, they probably considered going to court at that time.




-- Brice

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 10:20 AM, kurt greaves <kurt@instaclustr.com> wrote:

> are people actually trying to imply that Google is less evil than oracle?
> what is this shill fest
>
>
> On 12 Feb. 2017 8:24 am, "Kant Kodali" <kant@peernova.com> wrote:
>
> Saw this one today...
>
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13624062
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Eric Evans <john.eric.evans@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 2:26 PM, Edward Capriolo <edlinuxguru@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Lets be clear:
>> > What I am saying is avoiding being loose with the word "free"
>> >
>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software_license
>> >
>> > Many things with the JVM are free too. Most importantly it is free to
>> use.
>> >
>> > https://www.java.com/en/download/faq/distribution.xml
>> >
>> > As it relates to this conversation: I am not aware of anyone running
>> > Cassandra that has modified upstream JVM to make Cassandra run
>> > better/differently *. Thus the license around the Oracle JVM is roughly
>> > meaningless to the user/developer of cassandra.
>> >
>> > * The only group I know that took an action to modify upstream was
>> Acunu.
>> > They had released a modified Linux Kernel with a modified Apache
>> Cassandra.
>> > http://cloudtweaks.com/2011/02/data-storage-startup-acunu-ra
>> ises-3-6-million-to-launch-its-first-product/.
>> > That product no longer exists.
>> >
>> > "I don't how to read any of this.  It sounds like you're saying that a
>> > JVM is something that cannot be produced as a Free Software project,"
>> >
>> > What I am saying is something like the JVM "could" be produced as a
>> "free
>> > software project". However, the argument that I was making is that the
>> > popular viable languages/(including vms or runtime to use them) today
>> > including Java, C#, Go, Swift are developed by the largest tech
>> companies in
>> > the world, and as such I do believe a platform would be viable.
>> Specifically
>> > I believe without Oracle driving Java OpenJDK would not be viable.
>> >
>> > There are two specific reasons.
>> > 1) I do not see large costly multi-year initiatives like G1 happening
>> > 2) Without guidance/leadership that sun/oracle I do not see new features
>> > that change the language like lambda's and try multi-catch happening in
>> a
>> > sane way.
>> >
>> > I expanded upon #2 be discussing my experience with standards like c++
>> 11,
>> > 14,17 and attempting to take compiling working lambda code on linux GCC
>> to
>> > microsoft visual studio and having it not compile. In my opinion, Java
>> only
>> > wins because as a platform it is very portable as both source and binary
>> > code. Without leadership on that front I believe that over time the
>> language
>> > would suffer.
>>
>> I realize that you're trying to be pragmatic about all of this, but
>> what I don't think you realize, is that so am I.
>>
>> Java could change hands at any time (it has once already), or Oracle
>> leadership could decide to go in a different direction.  Imagine for
>> example that they relicensed it to exclude use by orientation or
>> religion, Cassandra would implicitly carry these restrictions as well.
>> Imagine that they decided to provide a back-door to the NSA, Cassandra
>> would then also contain such a back-door.  These might sound
>> hypothetical, but there is plenty of precedent here.
>>
>> OpenJDK benefits from the same resources and leadership from Oracle
>> that you value, but is licensed and distributed in a way that
>> safeguards us from a day when Oracle becomes less benevolent, (if that
>> were to happen, some other giant company could assume the mantle of
>> leadership).
>>
>> All I'm really suggesting is that we at least soften our requirement
>> on the Oracle JVM, and perhaps perform some test runs in CI against
>> OpenJDK.  Actively discouraging people from using the Free Software
>> alternative here, one that is working well for many, isn't the
>> behavior I'd normally expect from a Free Software project.
>>
>> --
>> Eric Evans
>> john.eric.evans@gmail.com
>>
>
>
>

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