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From Brice Dutheil <brice.duth...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Why does Cassandra recommends Oracle JVM instead of OpenJDK?
Date Mon, 26 Dec 2016 16:08:31 GMT
A note on this video from the respected James Gosling, is that it is from
2010, when Oracle was new to the Java stewardship ecosystem. The company
came a long since. I'm not saying everything is perfect. But I doubt that a
product such as the JVM will be as good without a company guidance.

The module system is interesting and is good thing regardless of the Oracle
features. Having AWT classes for a server always annoyed me, for IoT as
well. I'm really excited about Java 9.


-- Brice

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Edward Capriolo <edlinuxguru@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 5:58 AM, Kant Kodali <kant@peernova.com> wrote:
>
>> @Edward Agreed JVM is awesome and it is a work of many smart people and
>> this is obvious if one looks into the JDK code. But given Oracle history of
>> business practices and other decisions it is a bit hard to convince oneself
>> that everything is going to be OK and that they actually care about open
>> source. Even the module system that they are trying to come up with is
>> something that motivated by the problem they have faced internally.
>>
>> To reiterate again just watch this video https://www.youtube.com/
>> watch?v=9ei-rbULWoA
>>
>> My statements are not solely based on this video but I certainly would
>> give good weight for James Gosling.
>>
>> I tend to think that Oracle has not closed Java because they know that
>> cant get money from users because these days not many people are willing to
>> pay even for distributed databases so I don't think anyone would pay for
>> programming language. In short, Let me end by saying Oracle just has lot of
>> self interest but I really hope that I am wrong since I am a big fan of JVM.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 7:15 PM, Edward Capriolo <edlinuxguru@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Kant Kodali <kant@peernova.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Java 9 Module system looks really interesting. I would be very curious
>>>> to see how Cassandra would leverage that.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Kant Kodali <kant@peernova.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would agree with Eric with his following statement. In fact, I was
>>>>> trying to say the same thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> "I don't really have any opinions on Oracle per say, but Cassandra is
>>>>> a
>>>>> Free Software project and I would prefer that we not depend on
>>>>> commercial software, (and that's kind of what we have here, an
>>>>> implicit dependency)."
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 3:09 AM, Brice Dutheil <
>>>>> brice.dutheil@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Pretty much a non-story, it seems like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clickbait imho. Search ‘The Register’ in this wikipedia page
>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Potentially_unreliable_sources#News_media>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> @Ben Manes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed, OpenJDK and Oracle JDK are now pretty close, but there is
>>>>>> still some differences in the VM code and third party dependencies
like
>>>>>> security libraries. Maybe that’s fine for some productions, but
maybe not
>>>>>> for everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also another thing, while OpenJDK source is available to all, I don’t
>>>>>> think all OpenJDK builds have been certified with the TCK. For example
the
>>>>>> Zulu OpenJDK is, as Azul have access to the TCK and certifies
>>>>>> <https://www.azul.com/products/zulu/> the builds. Another example
>>>>>> OpenJDK build installed on RHEL is certified
>>>>>> <https://access.redhat.com/articles/1299013>. Canonical probably
is
>>>>>> running TCK comliance tests as well on thei OpenJDK 8 since they
are listed
>>>>>> on the signatories
>>>>>> <http://openjdk.java.net/groups/conformance/JckAccess/jck-access.html>
>>>>>> but not sure as I couldn’t find evidence on this; on this signatories
list
>>>>>> again there’s an individual – Emmanuel Bourg – who is related
to
>>>>>> Debian <https://lists.debian.org/debian-java/2015/01/msg00015.html>
(
>>>>>> linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/ebourg>), but not sure
again
>>>>>> the TCK is passed for each build.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bad OpenJDK intermediary builds, i.e without TCK compliance tests,
is
>>>>>> a reality
>>>>>> <https://github.com/docker-library/openjdk/commit/00a9c5c080f2a5fd1510bc0716db7afe06cbd017>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While the situation has enhanced over the past months I’ll still
>>>>>> double check before using any OpenJDK builds.
>>>>>> ​
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Brice
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 5:08 PM, Voytek Jarnot <
>>>>>> voytek.jarnot@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reading that article the only conclusion I can reach (unless
I'm
>>>>>>> misreading) is that all the stuff that was never free is still
not free -
>>>>>>> the change is that Oracle may actually be interested in the fact
that some
>>>>>>> are using non-free products for free.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pretty much a non-story, it seems like.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Kant Kodali <kant@peernova.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looking at this http://www.theregister.co
>>>>>>>> .uk/2016/12/16/oracle_targets_java_users_non_compliance/?mt=
>>>>>>>> 1481919461669 I don't know why Cassandra recommends Oracle
JVM?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> JVM is a great piece of software but I would like to stay
away from
>>>>>>>> Oracle as much as possible. Oracle is just horrible the way
they are
>>>>>>>> dealing with Java in General.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> "I don't really have any opinions on Oracle per say, but Cassandra is a
>>> Free Software project and I would prefer that we not depend on
>>> commercial software, (and that's kind of what we have here, an
>>> implicit dependency)."
>>>
>>> We are a bit loose here with terms "free" and "commercial". The oracle
>>> JVM is open source, it is free to use and the trademark is owned by a
>>> company.
>>>
>>> That is not much different then using a tool for cassandra like a driver
>>> hosted on github but made my a company.
>>>
>>> The thing about a JVM is that like a kernel you want really smart
>>> dedicated people working on it. Oracle has moved the JVM forward since
>>> taking over sun. You can not just manage a JVM like say the freebsd port of
>>> x maintained by 3 part time dudes that all get paid to do something else.
>>>
>>
>>
> Many of the modern languages are "propped up" by commercial entities.
>
> Microsoft and c#(j++, .net, etc )
> Google and go
> Google and andriod (j++--)
> Apple and swift
>
> The open initiatives have there own set of problems. Mainly adoption and
> leadership, for example compare c# with rust or scala.
>
> No one pays for the language directly you pay for the eco-system and tools
> around it. I see JVM without a large entity like sun/oracle to be a strange
> beast. No large entity to sync time and money into things like G1 garbage
> collector.
>
> I could see efforts like lambda's happening more like a scala world, where
> you have compatibility issues between 2.9 and 2.10, constant repackaging,
> ideological arguments over what is idiomatic. c++ 11,14,17 is a good
> example of that. I never seem to have a compiler that can deal with the
> syntax in the spec. I am constantly rebuilding a compiler from source to
> compile someone else source code that supposedly matching a spec from 5
> years ago.
>
>
>
>
>

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