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From Kant Kodali <k...@peernova.com>
Subject Re: Why does Cassandra recommends Oracle JVM instead of OpenJDK?
Date Sat, 24 Dec 2016 10:58:22 GMT
@Edward Agreed JVM is awesome and it is a work of many smart people and
this is obvious if one looks into the JDK code. But given Oracle history of
business practices and other decisions it is a bit hard to convince oneself
that everything is going to be OK and that they actually care about open
source. Even the module system that they are trying to come up with is
something that motivated by the problem they have faced internally.

To reiterate again just watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=9ei-rbULWoA

My statements are not solely based on this video but I certainly would give
good weight for James Gosling.

I tend to think that Oracle has not closed Java because they know that cant
get money from users because these days not many people are willing to pay
even for distributed databases so I don't think anyone would pay for
programming language. In short, Let me end by saying Oracle just has lot of
self interest but I really hope that I am wrong since I am a big fan of JVM.





On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 7:15 PM, Edward Capriolo <edlinuxguru@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Kant Kodali <kant@peernova.com> wrote:
>
>> Java 9 Module system looks really interesting. I would be very curious to
>> see how Cassandra would leverage that.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Kant Kodali <kant@peernova.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I would agree with Eric with his following statement. In fact, I was
>>> trying to say the same thing.
>>>
>>> "I don't really have any opinions on Oracle per say, but Cassandra is a
>>> Free Software project and I would prefer that we not depend on
>>> commercial software, (and that's kind of what we have here, an
>>> implicit dependency)."
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 3:09 AM, Brice Dutheil <brice.dutheil@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pretty much a non-story, it seems like.
>>>>
>>>> Clickbait imho. Search ‘The Register’ in this wikipedia page
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Potentially_unreliable_sources#News_media>
>>>>
>>>> @Ben Manes
>>>>
>>>> Agreed, OpenJDK and Oracle JDK are now pretty close, but there is still
>>>> some differences in the VM code and third party dependencies like security
>>>> libraries. Maybe that’s fine for some productions, but maybe not for
>>>> everyone.
>>>>
>>>> Also another thing, while OpenJDK source is available to all, I don’t
>>>> think all OpenJDK builds have been certified with the TCK. For example the
>>>> Zulu OpenJDK is, as Azul have access to the TCK and certifies
>>>> <https://www.azul.com/products/zulu/> the builds. Another example
>>>> OpenJDK build installed on RHEL is certified
>>>> <https://access.redhat.com/articles/1299013>. Canonical probably is
>>>> running TCK comliance tests as well on thei OpenJDK 8 since they are listed
>>>> on the signatories
>>>> <http://openjdk.java.net/groups/conformance/JckAccess/jck-access.html>
>>>> but not sure as I couldn’t find evidence on this; on this signatories list
>>>> again there’s an individual – Emmanuel Bourg – who is related to Debian
>>>> <https://lists.debian.org/debian-java/2015/01/msg00015.html> (linkedin
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/ebourg>), but not sure again the TCK is
>>>> passed for each build.
>>>>
>>>> Bad OpenJDK intermediary builds, i.e without TCK compliance tests, is a
>>>> reality
>>>> <https://github.com/docker-library/openjdk/commit/00a9c5c080f2a5fd1510bc0716db7afe06cbd017>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> While the situation has enhanced over the past months I’ll still double
>>>> check before using any OpenJDK builds.
>>>> ​
>>>>
>>>> -- Brice
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 5:08 PM, Voytek Jarnot <voytek.jarnot@gmail.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Reading that article the only conclusion I can reach (unless I'm
>>>>> misreading) is that all the stuff that was never free is still not free
-
>>>>> the change is that Oracle may actually be interested in the fact that
some
>>>>> are using non-free products for free.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pretty much a non-story, it seems like.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Kant Kodali <kant@peernova.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking at this http://www.theregister.co
>>>>>> .uk/2016/12/16/oracle_targets_java_users_non_compliance/?mt=
>>>>>> 1481919461669 I don't know why Cassandra recommends Oracle JVM?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JVM is a great piece of software but I would like to stay away from
>>>>>> Oracle as much as possible. Oracle is just horrible the way they
are
>>>>>> dealing with Java in General.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> "I don't really have any opinions on Oracle per say, but Cassandra is a
> Free Software project and I would prefer that we not depend on
> commercial software, (and that's kind of what we have here, an
> implicit dependency)."
>
> We are a bit loose here with terms "free" and "commercial". The oracle JVM
> is open source, it is free to use and the trademark is owned by a company.
>
> That is not much different then using a tool for cassandra like a driver
> hosted on github but made my a company.
>
> The thing about a JVM is that like a kernel you want really smart
> dedicated people working on it. Oracle has moved the JVM forward since
> taking over sun. You can not just manage a JVM like say the freebsd port of
> x maintained by 3 part time dudes that all get paid to do something else.
>

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