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From Roshni Rajagopal <>
Subject RE: Cassandra Counters
Date Tue, 25 Sep 2012 04:53:07 GMT

Thanks Milind,
Has anyone implemented counting in a standard col family in cassandra, when you can have increments
and decrements to the count. Any comparisons in performance to using counter column families?


Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:02:51 -0700
Subject: RE: Cassandra Counters

You would use Cassandra Counters (or other variation of distributed counting) in case of having
determined that a centralized version of counting is not going to work.
You'd determine the non_feasibility of centralized counting by figuring the speed at which
you need to sustain writes and reads and reconcile that with your hard disk seek times (essentially).
Once you have "proved" that you can't do centralized counting, the second layer of arsenal
comes into play; which is distributed counting.
In distributed counting , the CAP theorem comes into life. & in Cassandra, Availability
and Network Partitioning trumps over Consistency. 


So yes, you sacrifice strong consistency for availability and partion tolerance; for eventual
On Sep 24, 2012 10:28 AM, "Roshni Rajagopal" <> wrote:

Hi folks,
   I looked at my mail below, and Im rambling a bit, so Ill try to re-state my queries pointwise.

a) what are the performance tradeoffs on reads & writes between creating a standard column
family and manually doing the counts by a lookup on a key, versus using counters. 

b) whats the current state of counters limitations in the latest version of apache cassandra?
c) with there being a possibilty of counter values getting out of sync, would counters not
be recommended where strong consistency is desired. The normal benefits of cassandra's tunable
consistency would not be applicable, as re-tries may cause overstating. So the normal use
case is high performance, and where consistency is not paramount.



Subject: Cassandra Counters
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 16:21:55 +0530

Hi ,
I'm trying to understand if counters are a good fit for my use case.Ive watched
many times over now...
and still need help!
Suppose I have a list of items- to which I can add or delete a set of items at a time,  and
I want a count of the items, without considering changing the database  or additional components
like zookeeper,
I have 2 options_ the first is a counter col family, and the second is a standard one

  1. List_Counter_CF


And in the second I can add a new col with every set of items added or deleted. Over time
this row may grow wide.To display the final count, Id need to read the row, slice through
all columns and add them.

In both cases the writes should be fast, in fact standard col family should be faster as there's
no read, before write. And for CL ONE write the latency should be same. For reads, the first
option is very good, just read one column for a key

For the second, the read involves reading the row, and adding each column value via application
code. I dont think there's a way to do math via CQL yet.There should be not hot spotting,
if the key is sharded well. I could even maintain the count derived from the List_Std_CF in
a separate column family which is a standard col family with the final number, but I could
do that as a separate process  immediately after the write to List_Std_CF completes, so that
its not blocking.  I understand cassandra is faster for writes than reads, but how slow would
Reading by row key be...? Is there any number around after how many columns the performance
starts deteriorating, or how much worse in performance it would be? 

The advantage I see is that I can use the same consistency rules as for the rest of column
families. If quorum for reads & writes, then you get strongly consistent values. In case
of counters I see that in case of timeout exceptions because the first replica is down or
not responding, there's a chance of the values getting messed up, and re-trying can mess it
up further. Its not idempotent like a standard col family design can be.

If it gets messed up, it would need administrator's help (is there a a document on how we
could resolve counter values going wrong?)
I believe the rest of the limitations still hold good- has anything changed in recent versions?
In my opinion, they are not as major as the consistency question.
-removing a counter & then modifying value - behaviour is undetermined-special process
for counter col family sstable loss( need to remove all files)-no TTL support-no secondary

In short, I can recommend counters can be used for analytics or while dealing with data where
the exact numbers are not important, orwhen its ok to take some time to fix the mismatch,
and the performance requirements are most important.
However where the numbers should match , its better to use a std column family and a manual
Please share your thoughts on this.

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