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From: Tom Barber <tom.barber@meteorite.bi>
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 22:01:14 +0100
Message-ID: <CABML50dFCwY=yRvK1FYdtK8WXTVOQWUeViUEEk2G7ESB-Un6tA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: NewBie Question ~ Book for Cassandra
To: Apache Board <board@apache.org>
Cc: "dev@cassandra.apache.org" <dev@cassandra.apache.org>
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Looking at that thread, I'm surprised you didn't call Dave out as well,
that attitude did no one any favours.

>Because lets all face the
>facts here, no one "likes" writing drivers and documentation, and I have
>done both for this project.

That's clearly incorrect, I (and I suspect other people) like writing docs
because it means people can use your tools in a much easier manner than
looking through the code or unit tests.

Tooling can be a burden but it doesn't excuse not writing docs, even if it
becomes a PMC type rule for committers to commit Docs for new features like
they should be committing unit tests. At least it improves what is shipped
with the Apache project in question.

Tom

On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 7:21 PM, Chris Mattmann <mattmann@apache.org> wrote=
:

> Hi Russell,
>
> [CC/board@, board members may want to join the
> Apache Cassandra lists for specifics and further
> engagement]
>
> Multiple things that need to be addressed below, but TL;DR:
>
> 1. I have asked the Apache Cassandra PMC, and its chair, to provide
> a detailed description on how the project *isn=E2=80=99t* controlled by a=
n
> external entity in its next monthly board report. The below further
> re-enforces the control. Further, it re-enforces the vitriol and
> name calling attitude when questioned and when someone suggests
> pointing to the Apache documentation and making it better as a first
> step. I plan on making it very loudly known at our next board meeting
> that something is awry. CC/board@ ahead of time on that.
>
> 2. You don=E2=80=99t seem to understand Apache. This is unfortunate.  I
> went to go look you up and see if you are a PMC member for Apache
> Cassandra. Funny enough, the main page doesn=E2=80=99t even link to the P=
MC
> (I couldn=E2=80=99t find a direct link). This isn=E2=80=99t even correct =
with respect
> to Apache branding guidelines here at the ASF. Shane, would you
> like to comment here? For an FYI to everyone, see:
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html
>
> After a Google Search, I found this page:
> https://wiki.apache.org/cassandra/Committers
>
> That looks way out of date. Luckily there is the project.apache.org
> ASF page: https://projects.apache.org/committee.html?cassandra
>
> Which indicates you aren=E2=80=99t a committer or PMC member of the proje=
ct.
> This is unfortunate. If you wrote a book for projects I work on, I
> would have hopefully long before and along the way got involved in
> the community, and encouraged you to contribute to the *core effort
> here at the ASF* and took you on the path towards becoming a PMC
> member in the *Apache project that is the core effort*.
>
> In short, I can see why you don=E2=80=99t understand Apache. It=E2=80=99s=
 likely
> due to the fact that the Apache Cassandra PMC doesn=E2=80=99t seem to get
> it either. If they did, they would have worked to explain it to
> you.  More on that later.
>
> 3. The fact that you think =E2=80=9Cthe companies that I try to [sic] vil=
ify
> are the *future* of projects like this=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t just a stat=
ement that
> indicates you don=E2=80=99t get Apache. That someone in the community (wh=
ich
> includes you even though you aren=E2=80=99t a committer or on the PMC) wo=
uld
> think the =E2=80=9Ccompanies=E2=80=9D are the =E2=80=9Cfuture=E2=80=9D of=
 any ASF project is just
> way way bad. Like way bad. Off the rails bad. We are *individuals*
> here, not companies.
>
> 4. You state you have wrote drivers and documentation for this
> project.  Yet you aren=E2=80=99t a PMC member or committer at the ASF. Ev=
er
> scratch your head and wonder why? By itself, again, sometimes there
> are reasons for this. Taken in context, there is something REALLY
> wrong here.
>
> Now, more specific replies inline below. Jonathan and PMC members
> for Apache Cassandra. Please take time to explain in your report
> what=E2=80=99s going on. I=E2=80=99m hopeful with mentorship and guidance=
 and time
> this can be addressed but right now, not really happy with what
> I=E2=80=99m seeing.
>
>
>
> **********
> Specific comments
>
> On 6/11/16, 9:48 AM, "Russell Bradberry" <rbradberry@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I respectfully disagree.  "Newbies" should be pointed in the direction
> that
> >will ensure the highest possibility of their success with the product.
> >This is the best decision for the project, regardless of where the
> >documentation may reside.
>
> While I agree with pointing Newbies to the point where
> there is the best documentation - I don=E2=80=99t agree that place
> should be outside of the Apache project.
>
> >
> >As one of the authors of an early book on Cassandra, the reason we wrote
> it
> >was because the ASF documentation was abysmal.
>
> What did you do to try and counteract this? Did you attempt to submit
> documentation patches and/or to submit documentation that would address
> that?
>
> > Now I am happy to say that
> >the book I wrote is obsolete, not just because it was written against an
> >early version of Cassandra, but because the external documentation is so
> >thorough the need for a book to be written in no longer present.
>
> I had no problem with your statement until you put =E2=80=9Cexternal=E2=
=80=9D before the
> word =E2=80=9Cdocumentation=E2=80=9D.
>
> >
> >If the ASF and the PMC want to promote internal documentation, then a
> >serious amount of time and effort needs to be put into the documentation=
.
> >This goes for every project in the ASF. The current state of documentati=
on
> >in any of the Apache projects sub-standard at best.
>
> This, unfortunately, is a strawman. I tell you that ASF projects should
> have
> the documentation that is required to run and should be the *first* place
> you point users to for your documentation. You respond, well the ASF
> projects
> have crappy documentation as a whole. I totally disagree with that. Here=
=E2=80=99s
> some examples: Tika, Nutch, Solr/Lucene, Subversion, HTTPD, Spark, Hadoop=
,
> Maven, I could easily go on.
>
> A project that has been around as long as *Apache* (note I keep putting
> *Apache* in front of the project name too - something I don=E2=80=99t see=
 all too
> often so far and something you should get used to) Cassandra should know
> better. This isn=E2=80=99t a new Incubator project.
>
> >
> >You make mention, several times, of the community, and in this case the
> >community has decided that the best source of documentation is the one
> that
> >has had a company put financial investment into it.  You can't expect a
> >community of unpaid volunteers to be able to coordinate and contribute
> >something of that high quality.
>
> Yes, I can. And yes, we do. That=E2=80=99s what we do at the ASF. It=E2=
=80=99s worked
> for many, many years, before, Apache Cassandra. It will work long after
> it too.
>
> >
> >Full disclosure, I am *not* on the PMC, nor am I an employee of DataStax
> or
> >any other company that provides support for an open source project. I am=
 a
> >member of the community that sees the highest probability of success of
> >this project being that the PMC supports the development of the core
> >product while the ancillary pieces like documentation and drivers get
> >supported by those who are paid to support it.  Because lets all face th=
e
> >facts here, no one "likes" writing drivers and documentation, and I have
> >done both for this project.
>
> Plenty of people are paid to support OSS software, even OSS software at t=
he
> ASF. But we must be diligent to wear our $dayjob hats, in contrast to the
> ASF hats, and to do what=E2=80=99s right for the effort at Apache, since =
in cases
> such as this, it is the *Apache* project, its community, and its license,
> that are friendly to downstream users (even companies).
>
> >
> >Suffice it to say, that in my opinion, these "companies" that you seem t=
o
> >be trying so hard to vilify are the future of projects like this. They
> fill
> >the gap that the ASF leaves with its volunteer based model.
> >
> >Also, to address your thinly veiled and pointed comments as of late.  It
> >seems you have already made up your mind about DataStax and are continui=
ng
> >in an effort to prove your point.  Doing this in a public manner is toxi=
c
> >for the community and will do nothing more than to divide it and risk
> >failure of the project.  I suggest you confer with the PMC and the compa=
ny
> >*privately* to determine what is best for the project and ultimately the
> >community.
>
> This statement above, sadly, indicates how broken the governance of
> this project is. 99% of all discussion in the ASF is public. The only
> discussion in private is that adding new PMC members and/or committers.
> Would have been nice for someone long long long before me, to tell you
> that.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> >
> >Best,
> >-Russell Bradberry
> >
> >On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) <
> >chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Everyone,
> >>
> >> While this may be a current great source of documentation on
> >> Cassandra, and while it exists externally, the PMC should be
> >> be promoting (and hopefully ensuring) that the source of documentation
> >> for Apache Cassandra is here at the ASF.
> >>
> >> I=E2=80=99m happy to be corrected that that is the case, and/or that
> >> I=E2=80=99ve missed something, but the first reply to questions like
> >> this from newbies shouldn=E2=80=99t be to point to an external website=
.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> >> Chief Architect
> >> Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
> >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> >> Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
> >> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> >> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> Director, Information Retrieval and Data Science Group (IRDS)
> >> Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
> >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> >> WWW: http://irds.usc.edu/
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 6/11/16, 8:54 AM, "Bhuvan Rawal" <bhu1rawal@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hi Deepak,
> >> >
> >> >You can try Datastax Docs, they are most extensive and updated
> >> >documentation available.
> >> >As Cassandra is a fast developing technology I wonder if there is a
> Book
> >> in
> >> >the market which covers latest features like Materialized Views/ SASI
> >> Index
> >> >or new SSTable Format. I believe the best starting point would be the
> >> >Academy Tutorials and further Planet Cassandra - A week in Cassandra
> >> series
> >> >provides good overview of blogs and developments by Cassandra
> Evangelists.
> >> >It also provides link of top blogs which help understand internal
> working
> >> >of the Database.
> >> >
> >> >However if you still feel the need, you may refer to books, here are
> some
> >> >that I know of -
> >> >Beginning Apache Cassandra Development - Vivek Mishra - 2014 - Link
> >> ><
> >>
> https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Apache-Cassandra-Development-Mishra/dp/1=
484201434
> >> >
> >> >Cassandra Data Modeling and Analysis - 2014 C.Y. Kan - Link
> >> ><
> >>
> https://www.amazon.com/Cassandra-Data-Modeling-Analysis-C-Y/dp/1783988886=
/ref=3Dsr_1_1?s=3Dbooks&ie=3DUTF8&qid=3D1465659906&sr=3D1-1&keywords=3Dcass=
andra+data+modeling+and+analysis
> >> >
> >> >Mastering Apache Cassandra - Second Edition - March 26 2015 - Link
> >> ><
> >>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1784392618/ref=3Dpd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_=
rd_p=3D1944687622&pf_rd_s=3Dlpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=3D201&pf_rd_i=3D148420=
1434&pf_rd_m=3DATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=3DYVM1QBXHKAFK18J1XBAC
> >> >
> >> >Cassandra Design Patterns - 2015 - Link
> >> ><
> >>
> https://www.amazon.com/Cassandra-Design-Patterns-Rajanarayanan-Thottuvaik=
katumana/dp/178528570X/ref=3Dsr_1_1?s=3Dbooks&ie=3DUTF8&qid=3D1465659937&sr=
=3D1-1&keywords=3Dcassandra+design+patterns
> >> >
> >> >Cassandra High Availability - 2014 - Link
> >> ><
> >>
> https://www.amazon.com/Cassandra-High-Availability-Robbie-Strickland/dp/1=
783989122/ref=3Dsr_1_1?s=3Dbooks&ie=3DUTF8&qid=3D1465659975&sr=3D1-1&keywor=
ds=3Dcassandra+high+availability
> >> >
> >> >Learning Apache Cassandra - Manage Fault Tolerant and Scalable
> Real-Time
> >> >Data - 2015 - Link
> >> ><
> >>
> https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Apache-Cassandra-Tolerant-Real-Time/dp/17=
83989203/ref=3Dsr_1_3?s=3Dbooks&ie=3DUTF8&qid=3D1465659975&sr=3D1-3&keyword=
s=3Dcassandra+high+availability
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Best Regards,
> >> >Bhuvan
> >> >Datastax Certified Architect
> >> >
> >> >On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 8:28 PM, Deepak Goel <deicool@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hey
> >> >>
> >> >> Namaskara~Nalama~Guten Tag~Bonjour
> >> >>
> >> >> I am a newbie.
> >> >>
> >> >> Which would be the best book for a newbie to learn Cassandra?
> >> >>
> >> >> Thank You
> >> >> Deepak
> >> >>    --
> >> >> Keigu
> >> >>
> >> >> Deepak
> >> >> 73500 12833
> >> >> www.simtree.net, deepak@simtree.net
> >> >> deicool@gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >> LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/deicool
> >> >> Skype: thumsupdeicool
> >> >> Google talk: deicool
> >> >> Blog: http://loveandfearless.wordpress.com
> >> >> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/deicool
> >> >>
> >> >> "Contribute to the world, environment and more :
> >> >> http://www.gridrepublic.org
> >> >> "
> >> >>
> >>
>
>

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