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From Chris Mattmann <mattm...@apache.org>
Subject Re: NewBie Question ~ Book for Cassandra
Date Sun, 12 Jun 2016 15:16:51 GMT
Hi Harmeet,

The dev list is the lifeblood of an Apache project, and
projects here at the ASF conduct 99% of their business in
public, not in private. The ASF is a non-profit for the 
public good and we have a tradition of openness and 
transparency. 

Even if the business isn’t pleasant some times, it must
be discussed, in public. The committers and PMC members for

the code base - the name of which is *Apache* Cassandra as
the project is here at the *Apache Software Foundation* - 
are Apache Software Foundation committers first, when they
deal or steward the Apache code-base. Even before their 
$dayjobs. 

Cheers,
Chris


On 6/11/16, 11:54 PM, "mylisttech@gmail.com" <mylisttech@gmail.com> wrote:

>Dear All,
>
>I am user of Cassandra. I am grateful to each of you for providing your time as committers
to the code base for a great product.
>
>This is what I wanted to suggest - could you gentlemen not create a group email   Id to
discuss matters of such importance amongst yourselves. Using the dev list I am not sure is
the best place. I have been reading emails where insinuations have being made - if a particular
company may high jack the code base etc.
>
>We are all developers , we love our code. I don't think this is right forum to bring things
out of this proportion , read wash dirty linen. 
>
>Pardon me if you think my opinion or inputs are wrong.
>
>I am newbie on Cassandra. I use it as an application developer. I don't have any intention
to judge your experiences or thoughts. Just saying this could be done in a finer way without
most if us getting to know about it.
>
>Regards, 
>Harmeet
>
>
>
>On Jun 12, 2016, at 2:31, Tom Barber <tom.barber@meteorite.bi> wrote:
>
>> Looking at that thread, I'm surprised you didn't call Dave out as well,
>> that attitude did no one any favours.
>> 
>>> Because lets all face the
>>> facts here, no one "likes" writing drivers and documentation, and I have
>>> done both for this project.
>> 
>> That's clearly incorrect, I (and I suspect other people) like writing docs
>> because it means people can use your tools in a much easier manner than
>> looking through the code or unit tests.
>> 
>> Tooling can be a burden but it doesn't excuse not writing docs, even if it
>> becomes a PMC type rule for committers to commit Docs for new features like
>> they should be committing unit tests. At least it improves what is shipped
>> with the Apache project in question.
>> 
>> Tom
>> 
>> On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 7:21 PM, Chris Mattmann <mattmann@apache.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Russell,
>>> 
>>> [CC/board@, board members may want to join the
>>> Apache Cassandra lists for specifics and further
>>> engagement]
>>> 
>>> Multiple things that need to be addressed below, but TL;DR:
>>> 
>>> 1. I have asked the Apache Cassandra PMC, and its chair, to provide
>>> a detailed description on how the project *isn’t* controlled by an
>>> external entity in its next monthly board report. The below further
>>> re-enforces the control. Further, it re-enforces the vitriol and
>>> name calling attitude when questioned and when someone suggests
>>> pointing to the Apache documentation and making it better as a first
>>> step. I plan on making it very loudly known at our next board meeting
>>> that something is awry. CC/board@ ahead of time on that.
>>> 
>>> 2. You don’t seem to understand Apache. This is unfortunate.  I
>>> went to go look you up and see if you are a PMC member for Apache
>>> Cassandra. Funny enough, the main page doesn’t even link to the PMC
>>> (I couldn’t find a direct link). This isn’t even correct with respect
>>> to Apache branding guidelines here at the ASF. Shane, would you
>>> like to comment here? For an FYI to everyone, see:
>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html
>>> 
>>> After a Google Search, I found this page:
>>> https://wiki.apache.org/cassandra/Committers
>>> 
>>> That looks way out of date. Luckily there is the project.apache.org
>>> ASF page: https://projects.apache.org/committee.html?cassandra
>>> 
>>> Which indicates you aren’t a committer or PMC member of the project.
>>> This is unfortunate. If you wrote a book for projects I work on, I
>>> would have hopefully long before and along the way got involved in
>>> the community, and encouraged you to contribute to the *core effort
>>> here at the ASF* and took you on the path towards becoming a PMC
>>> member in the *Apache project that is the core effort*.
>>> 
>>> In short, I can see why you don’t understand Apache. It’s likely
>>> due to the fact that the Apache Cassandra PMC doesn’t seem to get
>>> it either. If they did, they would have worked to explain it to
>>> you.  More on that later.
>>> 
>>> 3. The fact that you think “the companies that I try to [sic] vilify
>>> are the *future* of projects like this” isn’t just a statement that
>>> indicates you don’t get Apache. That someone in the community (which
>>> includes you even though you aren’t a committer or on the PMC) would
>>> think the “companies” are the “future” of any ASF project is just
>>> way way bad. Like way bad. Off the rails bad. We are *individuals*
>>> here, not companies.
>>> 
>>> 4. You state you have wrote drivers and documentation for this
>>> project.  Yet you aren’t a PMC member or committer at the ASF. Ever
>>> scratch your head and wonder why? By itself, again, sometimes there
>>> are reasons for this. Taken in context, there is something REALLY
>>> wrong here.
>>> 
>>> Now, more specific replies inline below. Jonathan and PMC members
>>> for Apache Cassandra. Please take time to explain in your report
>>> what’s going on. I’m hopeful with mentorship and guidance and time
>>> this can be addressed but right now, not really happy with what
>>> I’m seeing.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> **********
>>> Specific comments
>>> 
>>> On 6/11/16, 9:48 AM, "Russell Bradberry" <rbradberry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I respectfully disagree.  "Newbies" should be pointed in the direction
>>> that
>>>> will ensure the highest possibility of their success with the product.
>>>> This is the best decision for the project, regardless of where the
>>>> documentation may reside.
>>> 
>>> While I agree with pointing Newbies to the point where
>>> there is the best documentation - I don’t agree that place
>>> should be outside of the Apache project.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> As one of the authors of an early book on Cassandra, the reason we wrote
>>> it
>>>> was because the ASF documentation was abysmal.
>>> 
>>> What did you do to try and counteract this? Did you attempt to submit
>>> documentation patches and/or to submit documentation that would address
>>> that?
>>> 
>>>> Now I am happy to say that
>>>> the book I wrote is obsolete, not just because it was written against an
>>>> early version of Cassandra, but because the external documentation is so
>>>> thorough the need for a book to be written in no longer present.
>>> 
>>> I had no problem with your statement until you put “external” before the
>>> word “documentation”.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If the ASF and the PMC want to promote internal documentation, then a
>>>> serious amount of time and effort needs to be put into the documentation.
>>>> This goes for every project in the ASF. The current state of documentation
>>>> in any of the Apache projects sub-standard at best.
>>> 
>>> This, unfortunately, is a strawman. I tell you that ASF projects should
>>> have
>>> the documentation that is required to run and should be the *first* place
>>> you point users to for your documentation. You respond, well the ASF
>>> projects
>>> have crappy documentation as a whole. I totally disagree with that. Here’s
>>> some examples: Tika, Nutch, Solr/Lucene, Subversion, HTTPD, Spark, Hadoop,
>>> Maven, I could easily go on.
>>> 
>>> A project that has been around as long as *Apache* (note I keep putting
>>> *Apache* in front of the project name too - something I don’t see all too
>>> often so far and something you should get used to) Cassandra should know
>>> better. This isn’t a new Incubator project.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> You make mention, several times, of the community, and in this case the
>>>> community has decided that the best source of documentation is the one
>>> that
>>>> has had a company put financial investment into it.  You can't expect a
>>>> community of unpaid volunteers to be able to coordinate and contribute
>>>> something of that high quality.
>>> 
>>> Yes, I can. And yes, we do. That’s what we do at the ASF. It’s worked
>>> for many, many years, before, Apache Cassandra. It will work long after
>>> it too.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Full disclosure, I am *not* on the PMC, nor am I an employee of DataStax
>>> or
>>>> any other company that provides support for an open source project. I am
a
>>>> member of the community that sees the highest probability of success of
>>>> this project being that the PMC supports the development of the core
>>>> product while the ancillary pieces like documentation and drivers get
>>>> supported by those who are paid to support it.  Because lets all face the
>>>> facts here, no one "likes" writing drivers and documentation, and I have
>>>> done both for this project.
>>> 
>>> Plenty of people are paid to support OSS software, even OSS software at the
>>> ASF. But we must be diligent to wear our $dayjob hats, in contrast to the
>>> ASF hats, and to do what’s right for the effort at Apache, since in cases
>>> such as this, it is the *Apache* project, its community, and its license,
>>> that are friendly to downstream users (even companies).
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Suffice it to say, that in my opinion, these "companies" that you seem to
>>>> be trying so hard to vilify are the future of projects like this. They
>>> fill
>>>> the gap that the ASF leaves with its volunteer based model.
>>>> 
>>>> Also, to address your thinly veiled and pointed comments as of late.  It
>>>> seems you have already made up your mind about DataStax and are continuing
>>>> in an effort to prove your point.  Doing this in a public manner is toxic
>>>> for the community and will do nothing more than to divide it and risk
>>>> failure of the project.  I suggest you confer with the PMC and the company
>>>> *privately* to determine what is best for the project and ultimately the
>>>> community.
>>> 
>>> This statement above, sadly, indicates how broken the governance of
>>> this project is. 99% of all discussion in the ASF is public. The only
>>> discussion in private is that adding new PMC members and/or committers.
>>> Would have been nice for someone long long long before me, to tell you
>>> that.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> -Russell Bradberry
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) <
>>>> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>> 
>>>>> While this may be a current great source of documentation on
>>>>> Cassandra, and while it exists externally, the PMC should be
>>>>> be promoting (and hopefully ensuring) that the source of documentation
>>>>> for Apache Cassandra is here at the ASF.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’m happy to be corrected that that is the case, and/or that
>>>>> I’ve missed something, but the first reply to questions like
>>>>> this from newbies shouldn’t be to point to an external website.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Chris
>>>>> 
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>> Chief Architect
>>>>> Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>> Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
>>>>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
>>>>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Director, Information Retrieval and Data Science Group (IRDS)
>>>>> Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>> WWW: http://irds.usc.edu/
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 6/11/16, 8:54 AM, "Bhuvan Rawal" <bhu1rawal@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Deepak,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can try Datastax Docs, they are most extensive and updated
>>>>>> documentation available.
>>>>>> As Cassandra is a fast developing technology I wonder if there is
a
>>> Book
>>>>> in
>>>>>> the market which covers latest features like Materialized Views/
SASI
>>>>> Index
>>>>>> or new SSTable Format. I believe the best starting point would be
the
>>>>>> Academy Tutorials and further Planet Cassandra - A week in Cassandra
>>>>> series
>>>>>> provides good overview of blogs and developments by Cassandra
>>> Evangelists.
>>>>>> It also provides link of top blogs which help understand internal
>>> working
>>>>>> of the Database.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> However if you still feel the need, you may refer to books, here
are
>>> some
>>>>>> that I know of -
>>>>>> Beginning Apache Cassandra Development - Vivek Mishra - 2014 - Link
>>>>>> <
>>>>> 
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Apache-Cassandra-Development-Mishra/dp/1484201434
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cassandra Data Modeling and Analysis - 2014 C.Y. Kan - Link
>>>>>> <
>>>>> 
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Cassandra-Data-Modeling-Analysis-C-Y/dp/1783988886/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465659906&sr=1-1&keywords=cassandra+data+modeling+and+analysis
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mastering Apache Cassandra - Second Edition - March 26 2015 - Link
>>>>>> <
>>>>> 
>>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1784392618/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687622&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1484201434&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=YVM1QBXHKAFK18J1XBAC
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cassandra Design Patterns - 2015 - Link
>>>>>> <
>>>>> 
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Cassandra-Design-Patterns-Rajanarayanan-Thottuvaikkatumana/dp/178528570X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465659937&sr=1-1&keywords=cassandra+design+patterns
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cassandra High Availability - 2014 - Link
>>>>>> <
>>>>> 
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Cassandra-High-Availability-Robbie-Strickland/dp/1783989122/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465659975&sr=1-1&keywords=cassandra+high+availability
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Learning Apache Cassandra - Manage Fault Tolerant and Scalable
>>> Real-Time
>>>>>> Data - 2015 - Link
>>>>>> <
>>>>> 
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Apache-Cassandra-Tolerant-Real-Time/dp/1783989203/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465659975&sr=1-3&keywords=cassandra+high+availability
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>> Bhuvan
>>>>>> Datastax Certified Architect
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 8:28 PM, Deepak Goel <deicool@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hey
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Namaskara~Nalama~Guten Tag~Bonjour
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am a newbie.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Which would be the best book for a newbie to learn Cassandra?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thank You
>>>>>>> Deepak
>>>>>>>   --
>>>>>>> Keigu
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Deepak
>>>>>>> 73500 12833
>>>>>>> www.simtree.net, deepak@simtree.net
>>>>>>> deicool@gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/deicool
>>>>>>> Skype: thumsupdeicool
>>>>>>> Google talk: deicool
>>>>>>> Blog: http://loveandfearless.wordpress.com
>>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/deicool
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Contribute to the world, environment and more :
>>>>>>> http://www.gridrepublic.org
>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 


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