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From Krzysztof Sobkowiak <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] - Thoughts on Apache Camel 2.18 and towards 3.0
Date Thu, 24 Mar 2016 17:24:41 GMT

I'm not sure how the Camel Core actually looks like (especially the quality and the ability
to refactor or make more
complicated changes) but I had occasion to talk with some people using Camel and trying to
fix some issues (and
even saw some discussion in net about the state of Core) who think, the Core became very complicated
over the
years and it would be very difficult to make big changes in it. I think, it's normal that
the software which is developed
a long time can have  code which is no more used or should be refactored.

I think, the way to Camel 3 should also include the renovation of the Core (if really necessary)
or even rewriting and
making it more asynchronous, e.g. using (the later can be eventually part of Camel
4 roadmap if too dangerous
for Camel 3).

My 2 cents, but I think, we have here many people who are Camel experts and can say more,
whether it makes sense.

Kindly regards

On 23.03.2016 11:07, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> Hi
> So Camel 2.17 was the last release supporting Java 1.7.
> The next Camel 2.18 is requiring Java 1.8.
> Here is some thoughts of mine about this release up for discussion.
> a)
> I see the overall goal of Camel 2.18 as a stepping stone towards Java
> 1.8 and Camel 3.0.
> By that I mean the release should be a way of moving our existing
> users from Java 1.7 and the current Camel APIs and the likes gradually
> towards Java 1.8 and eventually Camel 3.0.
> In other words we should not get carried away to change/break APIs and
> whatnot just because Java 1.8 lambdas and functions.
> There are too many current users that rely on the current Camel API
> and we cannot go around change processor / expression / predicate /
> aggregation strategy and other interfaces to be java 8 functional if
> that means current code cannot compile. And certainly not adding
> Optional<X> as return types all over.
> The following releases (Camel 2.19 or 3.0) can pick up that torch and
> be more Java 1.8 aggressive. For example Camel 3.0 can expect API
> changes that are Java 8 lambda / functional based. And as well changes
> in the DSL to go with that.
> There are some minor code changes needed to make the source compile as
> source 1.8 to go in this Camel 2.18 let alone.
> b)
> Drop components that do not support and run on Java 1.8
> And potentially remove some deprecated components
> c)
> Drop karaf 2.x.
> And move to karaf 4.x for all our testing.
> d)
> Drop Jetty 8.x.
> This also requires to upgrade at least two components that currently
> rely on Jetty 8 to use Jetty 9.
> e)
> Upgrade to latest Jetty 9.
> Jetty 9.3 (or is it 9.4) requires Java 1.8
> f)
> Drop support for older versions of Spring. We have a number of
> camel-test-spring3 etc modules that can be dropped. And maybe even
> spring 4.0. as its also EOL.
> g)
> Potentially move spring-dm out of camel-spring into a camel-spring-dm
> module. So camel-spring can use latest version of Spring safely. This
> also makes it easier to deprecated spring-dm and remove it eventually.
> The Karaf team is working on a sping -> blueprint layer so you can use
> spring xml files but Karaf will "convert" that under the hood to
> blueprint and run it as blueprint. When that is ready we no longer
> need spring-dm.
> h)
> Continue adding components docs in the source, eg src/main/doc files.
> So we eventually have as many/all of them. This is an ongoing effort,
> as we need to do this for the EIPs and the other parts of the docs.
> However I see this as a great step for a new documentation and
> website, that IMHO is a big goal for Camel 3.0. To make the project
> website fresh and modern. And make the documentation easier for end
> users to use and view.
> i)
> Add camel-hysterix component and integrate camel's circuit breaker
> into turbine/hysterix so you can see metrics from camel in the
> dashboard. Eg to integrate with the popular Netflix OSS stack.
> j)
> Split camel-cxf into modules so we can separate WS and RS and also
> spring vs blueprint. Today its big ball of dependencies that is a bit
> hard to slice and dice. Specially for MSA style with REST and you dont
> want to add in a bunch of extra not needed JARs.
> k)
> Continue as usual by adding new components, data formats, fix bugs, and so on.
> l)
> Timeline. This release do not need to have 6-8 months timeframe. We
> could try to get this "stepping stone" release done sooner, so it can
> be released during/shortly after summer.
> There is plenty of "first work" that we must do with the java 8
> upgrade and dropping older techs etc, that we have our hands full for
> a while.
> Doing a release with these changes allows our end users to migrate
> along in a easy way, than a big bang - breaking apis - release would
> do. And the latter would be more appropriate to be released as Camel
> 3.0.
> Then towards the end of this year, we can see where we are and plan
> for a Camel 3.0 with a new website and documentation that such a
> release deserve. For example if we release Camel 3.0 in start of 2017
> then its also Camel's 10 year birthday year.
> And doing such a release with a rewamped website with fresh looking
> documentation and content, is what helps the project a lot.
> The current website looks the same as it did when it was created:
> PS: We surely also need a better "what is Camel" story on the front
> page. Its still that very first one with all the tech jumble that was
> initially created.
> PPS: I would also love to see a new Camel logo. The current one is a
> bit dull and boring.

Krzysztof Sobkowiak (@ksobkowiak)

JEE & OSS Architect, Integration Architect
Apache Software Foundation Member (
Apache ServiceMix Committer & PMC Member (
Senior Solution Architect @ Capgemini SSC (

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