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Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 17:34:36 +0200
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Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] - Remove or reduce ANT support for Camel examples
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Christian_M=FCller?= <christian.mueller@gmail.com>
To: dev@camel.apache.org
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+1 for dropping the ANT support and also for a Camel "hello world" example.
+0 whether this example should have ANT support. +0 for having a Maven
archetype for this example.
Am 09.07.2011 13:12 schrieb "Claus Ibsen" <claus.ibsen@gmail.com>:
> Hi Donald
>
> Thank you for your input.
>
> Since the examples have pom.xml file, you can have Maven go download
> all the JAR files for you.
> There is a command to do that.
>
> And then you can just go about doing as you wish without Maven.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Donald Whytock <dwhytock@gmail.com> wrote:
>> +0
>>
>> I can't speak for maintaining the Ant scripts for the examples.  I can
>> imagine they're a PITA to maintain, and I'm certainly not about to
>> offer to do so.
>>
>> But in the context of this, I'd like to mention that I'm not a Maven
>> user.  This isn't a matter of personal preference; I do my development
>> offline on a laptop with no network access, for various reasons
>> involving IP and security.  I typically work with local standalone
>> servers -- mail servers, XMPP servers, database servers, etc.
>>
>> This means my usual method of installing a required third-party .jar
>> is to download it on another machine, copy it over to the laptop and
>> install it manually.  This is among the reasons I rant sometimes about
>> dependence on third-party packages: it gets troublesome to do this
>> when dependency runs five levels deep.  Reading someone saying, "Why
>> don't you just use X?" often makes me cringe.
>>
>> I'm willing to believe that I'm one of a very small number of people
>> (can it be as small as 1?) who develop this way with Camel.  After
>> all, most people would develop a Camel application in an environment
>> more similar to their deployment environment.  But I'd like to offer
>> it as something to think about when one is inclined to say, "It's
>> okay, our users will just use Maven anyway."
>>
>> Don
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Jon Anstey <janstey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Big +1. The Ant examples were always a pain to work with because we ship
>>> very few 3rd party libs with Camel... which meant you would need to
download
>>> many 3rd party distributions and set up several env variables before
even
>>> running... good riddance I say :)
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Claus Ibsen <claus.ibsen@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> We have 34 examples in the Camel kit. And frankly to keep most of them
>>>> updated to work and run with Apache Ant is a p*** in the ****.
>>>> I would like to discuss if we should consider reducing the number of
>>>> examples that can run with Ant?
>>>>
>>>> The current pain points
>>>> - Keep Ant examples up to date is manual labor
>>>> - Some examples dont currently work as documented in README.txt file
>>>> - End user will have to manually download 3rd party libraries such as
>>>> Spring, ActiveMQ, Hibernate etc.
>>>> - End user will have to set environment variables for home, eg
>>>> ACTIVEMQ_HOME, ASPECTJ_HOME, HIBERNATE_HOME etc.
>>>> - Some examples have migrated and uses OpenJPA with Maven instead of
>>>> Hibernate, and thus running with Maven vs. Ant diverts.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest that we remove ANT support for the more complicated examples
>>>> where you need to download many different 3rd party projects and
>>>> whatnot.
>>>> We may want to keep it on a few simpler examples that we know can be
>>>> supported.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sidebar
>>>> ======
>>>> Now that we talk about examples. I would like to add a very simple
>>>> hello world examples as well.
>>>> Something we can use in the getting started guide, so people who
>>>> download the .zip / .tar can follow a guide.
>>>> And run the hello world example and see that Camel is up and running
>>>> quickly.
>>>> For example it could be based on the maven archetype that creates a
>>>> sample project (that example which moves files using a Content Based
>>>> Router).
>>>>
>>>> Then we could have this example supported by Ant and Maven.
>>>> =====
>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Claus Ibsen
>>>> -----------------
>>>> FuseSource
>>>> Email: cibsen@fusesource.com
>>>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>>>> Twitter: davsclaus, fusenews
>>>> Blog: http://davsclaus.blogspot.com/
>>>> Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jon
>>> ---------------
>>> FuseSource
>>> Email: jon@fusesource.com
>>> Web: fusesource.com
>>> Twitter: jon_anstey
>>> Blog: http://janstey.blogspot.com
>>> Author of Camel in Action: http://manning.com/ibsen
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Claus Ibsen
> -----------------
> FuseSource
> Email: cibsen@fusesource.com
> Web: http://fusesource.com
> Twitter: davsclaus, fusenews
> Blog: http://davsclaus.blogspot.com/
> Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen/

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