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From Hadrian Zbarcea <hzbar...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Editing and removing pages on Apache Camel website without discussing first
Date Wed, 04 May 2011 14:11:37 GMT
+1

It's actually *that* simple. Let's just think of Camel users. Camel users don't need links
to 3rd party products/services to learn how to use Camel.

The links to the dzone article and the Camel in Action book were not removed, and shouldn't
be!
I only removed duplicates. No need to have them all over.

Hadrian



On May 4, 2011, at 9:29 AM, James Strachan wrote:

> Agreed. I think we need to step back a little and think a little more
> about our users first and helping them get started with Apache Camel;
> figuring out guidelines on which pages can/can't have a link to an
> external document comes second.
> 
> On 4 May 2011 14:17, Jon Anstey <janstey@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yeah, come to think of it, the FAQ area is a good place for these kind of
>> common questions: how does Camel compare to Fuse MR, how does Camel compare
>> to Talend IF, how does Camel compare to Mule, etc etc. +1 on keeping those
>> FAQ entries from before.
>> 
>> As far as the getting started page goes, I don't see a reason to remove
>> links to the dzone article or Camel in Action book because they are about
>> pure Apache Camel.
>> 
>> On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 6:08 AM, Claus Ibsen <claus.ibsen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Rob Davies <rajdavies@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I've corresponded with Hadrian about this off list.
>>>> 
>>>> Whilst I understand the sentiment, this policy certainly wasn't clear to
>>> me or other PMC members. Whilst  there are occasional links to external
>>> information, mainly at FuseSource, these are historical and done in the
>>> context of providing information to new users and developers whilst we
>>> growing the Camel community, to be one of the most successful and widely
>>> used projects at Apache today. This isn't unique to Apache Camel, its a
>>> methodology  we've successfully followed whilst initiating and growing
>>> ActiveMQ, ServiceMix, Karaf and CXF - to get as much information into users
>>> hands as early as possible, from whatever source that maybe.
>>>> Given where Camel is today, its absolutely right to have a level playing
>>> ground - but what I would like to see is that this policy is clearly
>>> understood by everyone - and not handled in off list conversations.
>>>> 
>>>> I would like to propose that from now on all links to 3rd party
>>> distributions or usages of Apache Camel in a 3rd party product are put into
>>> (but not limited to) the following 4 categories:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. support
>>>> 2. Articles
>>>> 3. Tutorials
>>>> 4. Tools
>>>> 
>>>> And there is a grace period  (till end of June 2011) to move links to
>>> external information to one of these areas by the authors, else it they will
>>> be deleted.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> What about FAQ?
>>> 
>>> Thinking about it, it would make sense to be able to refer to 3rd
>>> party products or companies from a FAQ.
>>> For example we already do this by the - How does Camel compare to
>>> Mule. Where Mule is a product from MuleSoft.
>>> http://camel.apache.org/how-does-camel-compare-to-mule.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Here's my +1
>>>> 
>>>> On 3 May 2011, at 16:52, Hadrian Zbarcea wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> No, there are things that are not up to the community to decide. I drew
>>> attention when some changes were made that that was a mistake and my
>>> impression was that the point was well taken. I also mentioned that if
>>> changes won't be removed by their authors I will. That was months ago. If
>>> anything, I can be blamed for not making these changes earlier.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Apache Camel project has a designated place to inform the users
>>> community of commercial offerings [1]. And there are also the articles [2]
>>> and tutorials [3] pages that can be used (within reason). Everything else a
>>> commercial organization has to say about offerings related to the Apache
>>> projects can be done on their site.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I hope this clarifies it,
>>>>> Hadrian
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CAMEL/Support
>>>>> [2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CAMEL/Articles
>>>>> [3] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CAMEL/Tutorials
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On May 3, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This post is addressed to Hadrian who has been deleting and editing
>>>>>> web pages from Apache Camel (today),
>>>>>> which seems to be related to the fact those pages had information
about
>>> Fuse.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would like to call out that such actions should have been discussed
>>>>>> in the public at first and agreed upon by the community.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Most of the information has been there for a long time and its related
>>>>>> and relevant for Apache Camel.
>>>>>> And of use for people who look into what Camel is.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Claus Ibsen
>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>> Email: cibsen@fusesource.com
>>>>>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>>>>>> CamelOne 2011: http://fusesource.com/camelone2011/
>>>>>> Twitter: davsclaus
>>>>>> Blog: http://davsclaus.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen/
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Claus Ibsen
>>> -----------------
>>> FuseSource
>>> Email: cibsen@fusesource.com
>>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>>> CamelOne 2011: http://fusesource.com/camelone2011/
>>> Twitter: davsclaus
>>> Blog: http://davsclaus.blogspot.com/
>>> Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen/
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Jon
>> ---------------
>> FuseSource
>> Email: jon@fusesource.com
>> Web: fusesource.com
>> Twitter: jon_anstey
>> Blog: http://janstey.blogspot.com
>> Author of Camel in Action: http://manning.com/ibsen
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> James
> -------
> FuseSource
> Email: james@fusesource.com
> Web: http://fusesource.com
> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews
> Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/
> 
> Connect at CamelOne May 24-26
> The Open Source Integration Conference
> http://camelone.com/


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