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From Alex Heneveld <>
Subject Re: Windows support via XebiaLabs OverThere
Date Mon, 09 Feb 2015 18:05:11 GMT

jruby is a good option -- trying to do anything deep with object 
references across the language barrier is painful, but api calls are 
pretty straightforward.

but best would be asking xebia if they can either revert the license or 
grant the ASF the right to distribute it under the ASL2


On 09/02/2015 17:40, Andrew Kennedy wrote:
> I agree the legal issues are a potential minefield. It's really annoying
> that OverThere actually used to be Apache 2.0 licensed. I wonder if we
> could reach out to Xebia and explain that their method of dual licensing is
> having the effect of preventing use of their code in ASF projects, and see
> if they would change it?
> I also saw wiseman, but disregarded it for the same reason, it seems
> abandoned. Thinking about the Ruby client more, it seems pretty feasible,
> looking at this example from the JRuby wiki on GitHub:
> -
> Andrew.
> --
> -- andrew kennedy ? distributed systems hacker :
> ;
> On 9 February 2015 at 17:35, Richard Downer <> wrote:
>> On 9 February 2015 at 16:58, Andrew Kennedy
>> <> wrote:
>>> Hm.
>>> What's wrong with the second option from legal, i.e. making it an
>> optional
>>> dependency?
>> The issue that I see is that it imposes additional burdens on our
>> users. The license exception is not quite the get-out-of-jail-free
>> card that it first looks. There are two problems that I have
>> identified (there may be more):
>> Firstly, it is common for Brooklyn's commercial users to write their
>> own entities that connect to proprietary software or hardware, and
>> that their own code is kept closed source. That is absolutely fine
>> when joined with ASL2 projects such as Brooklyn. However this would
>> cause the "open source exception" clause of the OverThere license to
>> be void and revert to GPL, or require the user to seek a license from
>> XebiaLabs.
>> Secondly, even when there is no closed-source parts, the "open source
>> exception" clause still imposes further restrictions, namely that
>> source code must always accompany binary distribution. Again this is
>> something that ASL2 does not require, but the presence of OverThere
>> adds these burdens to the user.
>> So I am quite concerned that our *only* way of talking to Windows adds
>> these extra burdens that our *users* must resolve.
>>> problem is that alternative Java implementations of WinRM are pretty thin
>>> on the ground. Well, non-existant, as far as I know, so the Xebia
>>> implementation is really the only choice.
>> There are some others; for example wiseman:
>> although how functional it is I do not know; it appears the svn
>> repository has not been updated in 5 years.
>> But I certainly agree that from a technical viewpoint OverThere is
>> almost certainly the best implementation, by a considerable distance.
>>> There *is* a Ruby client implementation, so maybe we could bind to that
>>> using JRuby, and that would sove our client problem? The license for this
>>> ios Apache 2.0, so we'd be all good on the legal front, it's just
>>> technically more complex.
>> I hadn't considered that - it is a very interesting option. There is
>> also a Python client (pywinrm, MIT license, which is Apache category
>> A), and Jython bindings (PSF license, also category A). Maybe there
>> are a few more options out there than I first considered...!
>> Richard.

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