Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-ws-axis-user-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 61047 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2007 12:48:37 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.2) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 29 Aug 2007 12:48:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 88097 invoked by uid 500); 29 Aug 2007 12:48:26 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-ws-axis-user-archive@ws.apache.org Received: (qmail 87748 invoked by uid 500); 29 Aug 2007 12:48:25 -0000 Mailing-List: contact axis-user-help@ws.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk Reply-To: axis-user@ws.apache.org list-help: list-unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list axis-user@ws.apache.org Received: (qmail 87737 invoked by uid 99); 29 Aug 2007 12:48:25 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:48:25 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [206.123.75.163] (HELO sosnoski.com) (206.123.75.163) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:48:18 +0000 Received: from dev.sosnoski.com (ip-58-28-158-218.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz [58.28.158.218]) (authenticated bits=0) by sosnoski.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l7TClolm031250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:47:55 -0400 Message-ID: <46D56BA9.5070601@sosnoski.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:50:49 +1200 From: Dennis Sosnoski User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070620) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Subject: Re: Developing Axis2 web services starting from code References: <46D3FC0F.9010204@sosnoski.com> <88f5d710708280412t13185692o3967008ebacbe83@mail.gmail.com> <46D48480.9080502@sosnoski.com> <88f5d710708281551w7d377a8do8a606ed38d92e7ad@mail.gmail.com> <60708f4b0708290223r301cc82et3ee2fb366ea08314@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Hi Anne, You're assuming that corporations already have a set of approved schema datatypes. Most smaller to mid-sized organizations don't, and given the difficulties of schema development I mention in the article I don't think many are likely to develop these types directly. On the other hand, many organizations in this size range already have standardized business object models in the form of code libraries. Converting these standardized object models to schema terms, if done properly, will give them just the set of datatypes you postulate. As a side benefit, if they take this approach they'll be able to reuse their existing object model for new services, while knowing that it'll still map correctly to the equivalent schema datatypes. As to both SOAP and POX, I don't really understand your point. If you have the schema you can use it for both purposes - all we're discussing is how you get to that schema in the first place. - Dennis Dennis M. Sosnoski SOA and Web Services in Java Training and Consulting http://www.sosnoski.com - http://www.sosnoski.co.nz Seattle, WA +1-425-939-0576 - Wellington, NZ +64-4-298-6117 Anne Thomas Manes wrote: > Nice article Dennis, but you haven't addressed the fundamental issue > associated with the code-first approach. I'd like to see a code-first > approach that allows me to use corporate-approved schema datatypes so > that my applications aren't responsible for proliferating a ton of > incompatible types. Types are the fundamental sharable components in > service-oriented systems that enable interoperability of diverse > systems. These types need to be managed and governed. They should be > properly modeled by data professionals that understand the semantics > of the data that will be exchanged by applications. > > You really don't want a thousand different types representing core > entities like "customer", "order", and "invoice". You want your > applications to be exchanging well-defined types that are understood > by many applications. > > If your goal is to simply create a point-to-point connection between > two applications, then the code-first approach works just fine. And I > appreciate the value of using a model that supports both SOAP and POX > interfaces. > > But a better approach would be one that starts from corporate approved > XML Schema data types and allows me to support both SOAP and POX > interfaces. > > Anne > > > > On 8/29/07, Amila Suriarachchi wrote: > >> hi dennis, >> >> nice article. It seems many alternatives being developed (which I belive is >> good) for the code-first approach as well. I think that the java document >> feature you have introduced is a cool feature as well. >> >> please bear with me asking these two questions. >> 1. Does this compatible with java 1.4? >> 2. I saw this your article >> > >> optionals="orderId orderDate shipDate"> >> >> >> So it is manadatory to declare the item-type for an List? >> >> >> Amila. >> >> >> >> >> On 8/29/07, Paul Fremantle wrote: >> >>> Well to be fair you brought more than balance!! A whackload of good code >>> >> goes a loooonnnngg way! >> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/28/07, Dennis Sosnoski < dms@sosnoski.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Glad you enjoyed it, Paul! >>>> >>>> There's been so much bashing of the idea of web service development >>>> starting from code that I thought it was time to bring a bit of balance >>>> to the discussion. >>>> >>>> - Dennis >>>> >>>> >>>> Paul Fremantle wrote: >>>> >>>>> Great article! Thanks Dennis. >>>>> >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> On 8/28/07, *Dennis Sosnoski* < dms@sosnoski.com >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> My article on "Code First" Web Services Reconsidered has been >>>>> published >>>>> by InfoQ: >>>>> >> http://www.infoq.com/articles/sosnoski-code-first I've also >> >>>>> made some updates to Jibx2Wsdl to fix a few problems found, and >>>>> with one >>>>> more set of enhancements coming up will be making it part of the >>>>> upcoming JiBX 1.1.6 release. In the meantime you can get it at >>>>> >>>>> >> http://www.sosnoski.com/jibx-wiki/space/axis2-jibx/jibx2wsdl >> >>>>> I'll also mention that I'm going to be visiting Sydney and >>>>> Melbourne in >>>>> late September, with another trip to the U.S. in October. If >>>>> anyone is >>>>> interested in training classes or consulting support around SOA, >>>>> Axis2, >>>>> or XML in Java email me directly to find out more about my >>>>> >> services. >> >>>>> - Dennis >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dennis M. Sosnoski >>>>> SOA and Web Services in Java >>>>> Training and Consulting >>>>> http://www.sosnoski.com - http://www.sosnoski.co.nz >>>>> Seattle, WA +1-425-939-0576 - Wellington, NZ +64-4-298-6117 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: >>>>> >> axis-user-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org >> >>>>> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-user-help@ws.apache.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Paul Fremantle >>>>> Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2 >>>>> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair >>>>> >>>>> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org >>>>> paul@wso2.com >>>>> >>>>> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com >>>>> >> >> >>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: >>>> >> axis-user-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org >> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-user-help@ws.apache.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Paul Fremantle >>> Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2 >>> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair >>> >>> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org >>> paul@wso2.com >>> >>> >>> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com >>> >> >> -- >> Amila Suriarachchi, >> WSO2 Inc. >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-user-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: axis-user-help@ws.apache.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-user-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: axis-user-help@ws.apache.org