axis-java-user mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From "Jayaraman, Venkatesh" <jve...@cisco.com>
Subject RE: I give up ( AXIS is good software)
Date Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:41:45 GMT

I have used AXIS software.  I felt "intial learning curve was high" but
once you know the details of implementation  then I felt the AXIS is
easy to use. FAQs page was great. It had most of the answers I wanted. 


When I define WSDL we took most care in defining datatypes that are
supported by .NET and AXIS.  This helped in solving interoperability
problems.

What will make AXIS more popular?

   A. More supports for questions
   
   B. Address Interoperability issues in FAQs


Thanks

-Venky


 



-----Original Message-----
From: Davanum Srinivas [mailto:davanum@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 10:31 AM
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: I give up

Please see
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user&m=113051047826397&w=2

thanks,
dims

On 10/28/05, A B <axisisamess@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Fair enough. I agree that the expertize on the open source side is 
> superior and is probably better for more hardcore software deployments

> such as large networks/web sites, mission critical applications etc. 
> etc. But for small to medium business apps it has been my experience 
> that if you really need to get to the bottom of an issue it is better 
> to have someone accountable who wants your business. You have the 
> power to withhold payment or drop the vendor entirely if their support
doesn't solve your issues.
>
> However I will concede and retract my statement about open source in 
> general and re-direct specifically to axis.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff.
>
> Paul Barry <mail@paulbarry.com> wrote:
> I will agree that on this mailing list, so far, the few questions that

> I have asked have gone unresponded to (granted I just asked my last 
> question yesterday). But in general, I have found open source support 
> to be superior to commerce support. I haven't worked with Microsoft 
> specifically, but other support I get from commercial products is 
> usually an email address or phone number that goes to a general help 
> desk. This people typically have less knowledge about the product than

> I do. They can't conceptualize the problem I am having and they 
> usually just run through a list of typical problems and solutions.
> Open source projects, when they have a good community surrounding 
> them, are just the opposite. You are getting support directly from the

> experts. As long as you do your work to isolate the problem and report

> the information about the prob lem, most of the time you will get a 
> solution to your problem.
>
> So I guess my point is I can't really speak to this community yet, 
> because I haven't been participating in it yet for long enough, but 
> just because you have had a bad experience with this oepn source 
> project, don't say that commercial support is better than open source.
> If you want to attack the axis community specifically, fine, but there

> are a lot of open source projects that have communities that offer a 
> lot of help. You are making broad generalizations about M$ vs. open 
> source based on your experience with one open source community.
>
> On 10/28/05, McPhail, Jeff wrote:
> > I must say that I'm also extremely disappointed with Axis and this 
> > usergroup. I didn't like the fact that you have to sign up to 
> > receive ALL emails in order to participate -- I've never seen this 
> > before. So because I was in a jam and needed and answer, I jo ined 
> > and asked my question. I posted the question 5 times in different 
> > forms over a 3 week period and didn't get one response -- nothing.
> > So I then tried to unsubscribe and it didn't work. I followed the 
> > instructions in the auto-reply given for troubleshooting 
> > unsubscribes and that didn't work. So I emailed the administrator 
> > (his email was in the autoreply, but of course nowhere to be found 
> > on the axis site) and got a reply about 3 days later telling me that

> > the reason that my unsubscribe didn't work was because my email 
> > address was not on the list. So I responded assuring him that I am 
> > still on the list and am getting hundreds of messages a week (to my 
> > work email mind you) and I added a copy of the email header of one 
> > of the list emails I received with my email return path etc. -- I 
> > got no response. Also since the sender in the list emails is not 
> > axis-user@ws.apache.org but in stead the
>
> > individual senders address, I can't even mark them as spam to filter

> > them (not a very smart setup, not to mention the privacy issues). 
> > This is becoming a real nuisance and it appears that I have no 
> > recourse. I've tried emailing the general Apache help and got no 
> > response, and of course there is not a single phone number on the 
> > either the apache or axis web sites.
> > This is bush league support. No wonder so many people prefer to use 
> > Microsoft products. Maybe not all of their solutions are optimal 
> > (although I'm not sure how true this is anymore) but everything is 
> > much easier to implement, and interconnect with different 
> > technologies under the Microsoft umbrella. And when you have a 
> > problem, the support sites available are much superior -- I've never

> > posted an issue about a microsoft product where I didn't have it 
> > solved within a day or two. The open source concept is great when 
> > you're a student and can't afford to fork over a grand or two for 
> > software, but when you use it for business apps and factor in the 
> > time to implement and the extra tens of thousands of dollars in man 
> > hours per year to fix bugs, Microsoft is a much cheaper solution.
> >
> > I would be extremely grateful to anyone to can tell me how to get 
> > off of this list. Thank you.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jeff.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Paul Grillo [mailto:Paul.Grillo@trivininc.com]
> > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 10:15 AM
> > To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > Cc: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: I give up
> >
> > I would like to add that, to a large extent, I feel Kurt's pain. We 
> > used Axis 1.2 to deploy a single SOAP service that was required of 
> > us by one of our major partners that dictated a .NET interface 
> > complete with SOAP element si gnature, timestamp, and encryption. I 
> > will say that we got this working very nicely. I am appreciative of 
> > the work. I will say that my interactions with the WSS4J folks was 
> > extremely helpful, and I thank them very much. So, that is a great 
> > success and I thank everybody that contributed.
> >
> > Now as I look to go a little more mainstream within the rest of our 
> > products at our company, I began taking a closer look at Axis, 
> > including java data binding dependencies which are critical because 
> > of the various products our company produces that will need to 
> > adhere to the bound XSD Objects. I need to insure that I have some 
> > independence when choosing this piece of the puzzle.
> >
> > I have looked at AXIS and AXIS2. I have had a few questions related 
> > to this. My major frustration is as my inability to get answers to 
> > what I thought were fairly simple questions. Perhaps they are either

> > not< BR>>
> simple, or thought as stupid. I'm not talking just about zeroing in on
>
> > a bug and submitting it to JIRA, I'm talking about some input about 
> > even "whether" something is doable, not just how.
> >
> > Now before anybody comes down on me, I am fully aware of where my 
> > expectations should be vis a vis open source software, mailing 
> > lists, etc. I do not feel that I am owed anything when using this 
> > software. I have found, however, a little more help in other areas 
> > when using open source. I have, in fact, solved a myriad of problems

> > on my own within Axis. I find myself in the bowels of the code 
> > trying to figure out what it's doing etc, so to solve my own 
> > problems. I do, however, have to factor in the time spent to
research and solve these issues.
> >
> > I have posted several questions and generally do not even get a 
> > response, or an I don't know, though I suppose the lack of a 
> > response is an I don't know. So, it's gotten to the point where I 
> > don't bother. In terms of Axis, I feel that I need to go in another 
> > direction simply because of my inability to get a straight answer 
> > around data binding support (for example) now or in the future in 
> > Axis or in Axis2. I have asked what I believe is a simple question, 
> > whether a particular class that seems like it should be thread safe
is so (just another example).
> > Generally speaking if somebody asked me about most any class I've 
> > designed and built as to whether it was designed that way, I could 
> > come up with an answer. Yet, no answer. Yes, yes, if a class is not 
> > advertised as Threadsafe, consider that it isn't. Lack of 
> > documentation, however, doesn't confirm the default assumption.
> >
> > But my bigger concern is the unknown. I don't have confidence that 
> > when and if I run into future problems I can find the resources or 
> > help to
>  > get around problems. Perhaps my expectations are much too high. Of
> > other products that we use and have had very good success is 
> > Hibernate, Castor, WSS4J (as mentioned above). I just don't get a 
> > comfortable feeling when working with Axis ...
> >
> > Okay, I'm big enough for somebody to tell me to not let the door hit

> > me in the you know where as I leave. Again, I'm not angry, I'm not 
> > even largely disappointed. I've just been forced to make a decision 
> > based on what is...
> >
> > Perhaps in awhile I'll return to see what's up with Axis2.
> >
> > -paul
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Davanum Srinivas [mailto:davanum@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:07 PM
> > To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > Cc: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: I give up
> >
> > Kurt,
> >
> > Looking at your postings, i don't see much from you in terms of 
> > engaging the user or developer community to ask for help.
> >
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-dev&w=2&r=1&s=olsen&q=b
> >
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user&w=2&r=1&s=olsen&q=b
> >
> > Your specific email to Tom
> >
> (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-dev&m=112801670512125&w=2)...i
> > have no clue how to help. i did reply back to a prev mail on that 
> > thread
> >
> (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-dev&m=112692662128194&w=2)
> >
> > If you have a problem with Macromedia or eBay folks, We can't really

> > help. If you have a problem with latest releases of Axis, we can 
> > help if you add JIRA bugs (and chase us!) on the axis-dev@ list. If 
> > you need production/development support, there are avenues for that
as well.
> >
> > Am sorry you had a bad experience, thanks for the feedback.
> >
> > -- dims
> >
> > On 10/27/05, Kurt Olsen wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Folks, I hate to say it but I had to ditch axis. Way too
difficult.
> > And we
> > > won't be using it in the future.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Our application has approx 30 vendors we communicate with using
SOAP.
> > >
> > > Approx 25 of them are implemented by simply creating strings and
> > firing them
> > > off, then parsing out the reply.
> > >
> > > Primitive but fairly easy to do.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The other 5 used axis. At the moment we're using the ColdFusion
> > server. When
> > > we upgraded to java 5 and coldfusion mx7 our axis based connectors
> > broke.
> > >
> > > It took approximately 2 weeks to diagnose and 'solve' the problem.
> > Axis used
> > > commons-logging, and commons-logging broke. That required fairly
> > >
> > &gt ; major surgery to the coldfusion classpath. Pieces of 
> > commons-logging
>
> > we're
> > > coming in off of different classloaders.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So technically speaking, commons-logging broke - not axis
> > but.....since axis
> > > brought the flaw to life, and has given us grief (probably the CF
> > > integration) in the past, it is axis that got the bad reputation 
> > > due
> > to the
> > > fact that it was at the top of the food chain. The two weeks 
> > > solving
> > this
> > > problem wasn't totally wasted because it exposed a fairly large 
> > > flaw
> > in the
> > > overall architecture.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > After getting the existing connectors to work again, I had to turn

> > > my attention to the next connector in the pipeline - eBay via
Soap....
> > >
> > > Only one problem - eBay's sdk is written against java 1.4 and axis

> > > 1.1
> > -
> > > while we upgraded to java 5 and axis 1.2
> > >
> > > After another week of trying various 'workarounds' etc I was 
> > > forced to
> > give
> > > up and will have to communicate with eBay using the "create
strings"
> > > technique.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bottom line is that the overall cost of the 'SOAP' system and it's
> > co-horts
> > > in crime is un-managable given our quarterly release cycle.
> > >
> > > I'm disappointed that after all that effor to modernize - the goal
> > really
> > > wasn't accomplished.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I fully understand the various issues involved, most of which 
> > > aren't
> > really
> > > axis's fault but - any way I slice it this entire exercise felt
> > exactly like
> > > trying to use the J2EE 1.3/1.4 ejb specifications. Big, confusing,
> > hard to
> > > use etc.....And I predict will eventua lly be abandoned (or at 
> > > least
> > buried
> > > beneath a convienence API).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This is just one co's experience of course but I submit to you 
> > > that as
> > you
> > > continue your development you might want to consider the overall
> > 'cost' that
> > > SOAP and it's tools are exacting on the community. This simply has

> > > to
> > get
> > > easier because as it stands both the other developers (who watched
> > over my
> > > shoulder so to speak) and myself have simply given up on an 'easy'
> > tool fix.
> > > Our experience is that SOAP is a diaster and costing virtually
> > everyone in
> > > corporate programming a lot of money and lost sleep....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for listening, and please remember that I'm taking the time

> > > to
> > write
> > > this not to complain (well, maybe a little) but to provide 
> > > feedback
> &gt ; from the
> > > field.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Kurt Olsen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> **************************************************************
> > This message, including any attachments, contains confidential 
> > information
> intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by 
> law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact sender 
> immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies. You are hereby 
> notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this 
> message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly
prohibited.
> > TIAA-CREF
> >
> **************************************************************
> >
> >
>
>
>  ________________________________
>  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>
>


--
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/

Mime
View raw message