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From Jim Poulsen <>
Subject RE: Best practices question
Date Tue, 27 May 2003 13:10:08 GMT

Thanks for your response, i just have a few questions about it:

- Not sure what you mean by 'verb set' (particularly when you refer to CRUD,
HTTP, and SQL). In my experience a web service invokation is against an
'abstraction' control layer of the underlying data in a data store somewhere
(ejb layer, service layer).  What i mean is that the 'verbs' in a web
service call are things like 'getStockQuote' not SQL terms like 'SELECT'.
Could you explain further?

- Could you also be more specific about why RPC type WS implementations do
not 'scale'?

- It does seem to complicate the 'set up' of the call from the client side
when you use doc/literal.  Doesn't the client have to manually construct the
XML message to be passed to the server in the case of a doc/literal service
call (when the xsd types required by the doc/literal service are complex)?

I appreciate any time you can spend answering my questions, as i am fairly
new to web services.



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill de hÓra []
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 4:02 AM
Subject: Re: Best practices question

Jim Poulsen wrote:
> I agree on 1 'If you are a client you should use whatever the server
> uses, otherwise the call will fail'
> I must disagree on 2 'Right- it all depends on the situation. If you are
> server you should
> use doc/literal.'.  Unless you can somehow convince me that a simple web
> service operation implementation which involves only xsd defined simple
> types (for parameters as well as return) has to be a document/literal type
> operation.  Making it doc/literal only complicates the implementation.

For two or three parties in point to point integrations maybe. After 
than WS RPC simply doesn't scale, *unless* everyone agrees on a 
uniform verb set (a la CRUD, HTTP, SQL). But if you agree of a 
controlled set the main job left is for parties to agree on content 
models and versions, which brings you back around to doc/lit.

I'd go further than Ted - don't start from WSDL, start from the 
information the business needs to move around. You may or may not 
need WSDL/xsd.

If you /are/ the server you /should/ use doc/literal since you have 
no idea how many clients will be talking to you. You also have no 
idea how many servers you'll need to talk to over time to serve your 
clients, so it's useful if you don't have to remember all the other 
custom RPC calls. And no, I don't believe it complicates the 
implementation. If it did we'd never have moved onto the web to do 
services in the first place since doc/lit is just a XMLized version 
of what the web already provides.

Bill de hÓra

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